Anyone here? :)

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Anyone here? :)

Jim Fulton

Hi,

I've noticed that:

- Most of the email to this list recently has been spam.

- The contact email for the SIG coordinator, Andy Robinson, doesn't seem
  to be valid anymore.

- My recent question to the list has gone unanswered for almost
  a day! ;)

Should the SIG be retired?  If not, I suggest managing the mailing
list a bit differently, holding messages from non-subscribers.  
If we decide to keep the sig, and someone answers
my question <wink>, then I'd be willing to take over management of the
list.

Jim

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Re: Anyone here? :)

Tamito KAJIYAMA
Hi,

I'd like to post a reply, although I have no idea with regard to
your question on locale-aware sort.

| Should the SIG be retired?

Honestly to say, I'm less interested in this SIG than ever,
since we have a rich set of Unicode codecs in the 2.4 series,
and IMHO the largest part of Python i18n has been done with the
current Unicode support.

However, it seems to me a little bit early to break up the SIG,
as there are other i18n-related topics (with regard to which I
don't expect I could make some contribution, though).

| If not, I suggest managing the mailing
| list a bit differently, holding messages from non-subscribers.  

+1.

--
KAJIYAMA, Tamito <[hidden email]>


Jim Fulton <[hidden email]> writes:
|
| Hi,
|
| I've noticed that:
|
| - Most of the email to this list recently has been spam.
|
| - The contact email for the SIG coordinator, Andy Robinson, doesn't seem
|   to be valid anymore.
|
| - My recent question to the list has gone unanswered for almost
|   a day! ;)
|
| Should the SIG be retired?  If not, I suggest managing the mailing
| list a bit differently, holding messages from non-subscribers.  
| If we decide to keep the sig, and someone answers
| my question <wink>, then I'd be willing to take over management of the
| list.
|
| Jim
|
| --
| Jim Fulton           mailto:[hidden email]       Python Powered!        
| CTO                  (540) 361-1714            http://www.python.org 
| Zope Corporation     http://www.zope.com       http://www.zope.org   
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locale-aware sorting (was Re: Anyone here? :)

Jim Fulton
On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 00:25 +0900, Tamito KAJIYAMA wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to post a reply, although I have no idea with regard to
> your question on locale-aware sort.

Was my question too terse?  Or do you simply not have an answer?

Jim

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Re: locale-aware sorting (was Re: Anyone here? :)

Tamito KAJIYAMA
Hi again,

Jim Fulton <[hidden email]> writes:
|
| On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 00:25 +0900, Tamito KAJIYAMA wrote:
| > Hi,
| >
| > I'd like to post a reply, although I have no idea with regard to
| > your question on locale-aware sort.
|
| Was my question too terse?  Or do you simply not have an answer?
|
| Jim
|
| --
| Jim Fulton           mailto:[hidden email]       Python Powered!        
| CTO                  (540) 361-1714            http://www.python.org 
| Zope Corporation     http://www.zope.com       http://www.zope.org   

The latter: I simply do not have an answer.

--
KAJIYAMA, Tamito <[hidden email]>
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Re: Anyone here? :)

M.-A. Lemburg
In reply to this post by Tamito KAJIYAMA
Tamito KAJIYAMA wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to post a reply, although I have no idea with regard to
> your question on locale-aware sort.
>
> | Should the SIG be retired?
>
> Honestly to say, I'm less interested in this SIG than ever,
> since we have a rich set of Unicode codecs in the 2.4 series,
> and IMHO the largest part of Python i18n has been done with the
> current Unicode support.
>
> However, it seems to me a little bit early to break up the SIG,
> as there are other i18n-related topics (with regard to which I
> don't expect I could make some contribution, though).

There's still a lot to do on the Unicode front:

* Unicode collation support (this is what Jim's after)

        http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/

* Unicode compression

        http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr6/

* Adding Locale Data support:

        http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/tr35-5.html
        http://www.unicode.org/cldr/

  This is a rather new option and would finally make
  Python independent from the libc locale support which
  causes much trouble in user-land.

> | If not, I suggest managing the mailing
> | list a bit differently, holding messages from non-subscribers.  
>
> +1.

Only if you are willing to administer the mailing list.

Note that the spam that's coming in on python.org lists
can make this a nasty task.

--
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Nov 16 2005)
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Re: Anyone here? :)

Jim Fulton
On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 18:51 +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

> Tamito KAJIYAMA wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to post a reply, although I have no idea with regard to
> > your question on locale-aware sort.
> >
> > | Should the SIG be retired?
> >
> > Honestly to say, I'm less interested in this SIG than ever,
> > since we have a rich set of Unicode codecs in the 2.4 series,
> > and IMHO the largest part of Python i18n has been done with the
> > current Unicode support.
> >
> > However, it seems to me a little bit early to break up the SIG,
> > as there are other i18n-related topics (with regard to which I
> > don't expect I could make some contribution, though).
>
> There's still a lot to do on the Unicode front:
>
> * Unicode collation support (this is what Jim's after)
>
> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/
>
> * Unicode compression
>
> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr6/
>
> * Adding Locale Data support:
>
> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/tr35-5.html
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/
>
>   This is a rather new option and would finally make
>   Python independent from the libc locale support which
>   causes much trouble in user-land.

What is a rather new option?  CLDR?

Hasn't ICU covered this ground already?

In any case, is someone working on leveraging CLDR in Python?
 
Are you aware of any work to wrap ICU besides PICU and the work
Stephan Richter did leveraging some of the ICU data in Zope?

> > | If not, I suggest managing the mailing
> > | list a bit differently, holding messages from non-subscribers.  
> >
> > +1.
>
> Only if you are willing to administer the mailing list.

I am.

> Note that the spam that's coming in on python.org lists
> can make this a nasty task.

Yeah. I do this for some Zope lists.  It's a pain, but I think
it's necessary for the list to be useful.

Jim

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Re: Anyone here? :)

Tom Emerson-2
Jim Fulton writes:
> Are you aware of any work to wrap ICU besides PICU and the work
> Stephan Richter did leveraging some of the ICU data in Zope?

I've had an itch for a while to provide the ICU break iterators in
Python, but each time I go to scratch it I get distracted. Is this
something that people would find generally useful?

--
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Software Architect                                 http://www.basistech.com
 "You can't fake quality any more than you can fake a good meal." (W.S.B.)
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Re: Anyone here? :)

Barry Warsaw
In reply to this post by Jim Fulton
On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 13:02 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:

> > Only if you are willing to administer the mailing list.
>
> I am.
>
> > Note that the spam that's coming in on python.org lists
> > can make this a nasty task.
>
> Yeah. I do this for some Zope lists.  It's a pain, but I think
> it's necessary for the list to be useful.

Jim, I'm happy to make you the list administrator for this sig.  Send a
confirmation message just to me and I'll make it happen.

-Barry


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Re: Anyone here? :)

M.-A. Lemburg
In reply to this post by Jim Fulton
Jim Fulton wrote:

>>There's still a lot to do on the Unicode front:
>>
>>* Unicode collation support (this is what Jim's after)
>>
>> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/
>>
>>* Unicode compression
>>
>> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr6/
>>
>>* Adding Locale Data support:
>>
>> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/tr35-5.html
>> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/
>>
>>  This is a rather new option and would finally make
>>  Python independent from the libc locale support which
>>  causes much trouble in user-land.
>
>
> What is a rather new option?  CLDR?

Yes, CLDR.

> Hasn't ICU covered this ground already?

No idea, I haven't looked at ICU yet - but from a glimpse
at the site:

http://www-306.ibm.com/software/globalization/icu/index.jsp

it looks as if most things are available in ICU.

The downside is its footprint:

http://icu.sourceforge.net/charts/icu4c_footprint.html

Not sure about the in-memory footprint, though.

> In any case, is someone working on leveraging CLDR in Python?
>
> Are you aware of any work to wrap ICU besides PICU and the work
> Stephan Richter did leveraging some of the ICU data in Zope?

No.

--
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Nov 16 2005)
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>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
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Re: Anyone here? :)

Andy Robinson-2
In reply to this post by Jim Fulton
Jim Fulton wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've noticed that:
>
> - Most of the email to this list recently has been spam.
>
> - The contact email for the SIG coordinator, Andy Robinson, doesn't seem
>   to be valid anymore.
>
> - My recent question to the list has gone unanswered for almost
>   a day! ;)
>

Hi all,

How timely.  I owe you all a large apology.

I was under the mistaken belief that I had handed over the admin
responsibilities about 2 years ago and unsubscribed; I certainly
intended to.  It  turns out that the spam filtering service I have been
subscribed to all that time (mailblocks.com, bought by AOL recently and
they shut it down  permanently today) was blocking the list altogether,
although strangely most other mailman lists came through.  I just
saw this while training Thunderbird on a fresh can of spam...

In any event I am extremely busy and not working in i18n these days, and
I'll have to ask Barry to reset my admin password (he'll confirm that
I lose them about once a year) so I would very much prefer if someone
else took over.


Sorry not to have offered a better service.

Best Regards,


Andy Robinson
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Re: Anyone here? :)

Jim Fulton
In reply to this post by M.-A. Lemburg
On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 21:40 +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

> Jim Fulton wrote:
> >>There's still a lot to do on the Unicode front:
> >>
> >>* Unicode collation support (this is what Jim's after)
> >>
> >> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/
> >>
> >>* Unicode compression
> >>
> >> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr6/
> >>
> >>* Adding Locale Data support:
> >>
> >> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/tr35-5.html
> >> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/
> >>
> >>  This is a rather new option and would finally make
> >>  Python independent from the libc locale support which
> >>  causes much trouble in user-land.
> >
> >
> > What is a rather new option?  CLDR?
>
> Yes, CLDR.
>
> > Hasn't ICU covered this ground already?
>
> No idea, I haven't looked at ICU yet - but from a glimpse
> at the site:
>
> http://www-306.ibm.com/software/globalization/icu/index.jsp
>
> it looks as if most things are available in ICU.
>
> The downside is its footprint:
>
> http://icu.sourceforge.net/charts/icu4c_footprint.html
>
> Not sure about the in-memory footprint, though.

Looking a bit further, it seems that ICU uses and is the
most popular library for using CLDR.

> > In any case, is someone working on leveraging CLDR in Python?
> >
> > Are you aware of any work to wrap ICU besides PICU and the work
> > Stephan Richter did leveraging some of the ICU data in Zope?
>
> No.

Dang.

Jim

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Re: Anyone here? :)

A.M. Kuchling
In reply to this post by M.-A. Lemburg
On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 09:40:45PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> No idea, I haven't looked at ICU yet - but from a glimpse
> at the site:
> http://www-306.ibm.com/software/globalization/icu/index.jsp
> it looks as if most things are available in ICU.

The Parrot VM uses ICU for its Unicode implementation.  You could ask
the Parrot implementors what their experience with ICU has been.  (I
don't believe they've had any problems with it, but don't follow
Parrot that closely.)

--amk
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