[Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

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[Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Charles Oliver Nutter-2
I don't know if y'all have seen this, but if we can all get Jython back
up and going there's going to be folks interested in hearing about it at
JavaOne. It's also motivation to get done what we want to get done.

Please try to submit at least one talk...and maybe more if any of you
have related talks you think would be worth presenting. I'm keen to see
the major dynlangs like Python and Ruby take back JavaOne.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open; Rock Star Speakers
Announced
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:21:18 +0000
From: JavaOne Conference <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: JavaOne Conference
<reply-32f7d04f7f-headius=[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]





*Today's Newsletter Highlights*

     * Call for Papers Is Now Open
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*Call for Papers Is Now Open
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William Pugh, University of Maryland
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Swing Threading 101: An Introduction to the Event Dispatch Thread
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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Charles Oliver Nutter-2
Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:
> I don't know if y'all have seen this, but if we can all get Jython back
> up and going there's going to be folks interested in hearing about it at
> JavaOne. It's also motivation to get done what we want to get done.
>
> Please try to submit at least one talk...and maybe more if any of you
> have related talks you think would be worth presenting. I'm keen to see
> the major dynlangs like Python and Ruby take back JavaOne.

Just a reminder guys, I'd love to see some of you try to present at
JavaOne, and I'm sure Jython will be clicking along really well by then.

--
Charles Oliver Nutter, JRuby Core Developer
Blogging on Ruby and Java @ headius.blogspot.com
Help spec out Ruby today! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec
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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Josh Juneau-2
Frank will be giving a presentation...he sent this to the jython-users list:

My proposal, Jython for Python Developers
"http://us.pycon.org/apps07/proposals/93/", has been accepted, so I'll
be doing a Jython talk at this year's PyCon.

-Frank

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Oliver Nutter" <[hidden email]>
To: "Charles Oliver Nutter" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "jython-dev" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Jython-dev] [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]


> Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:
>> I don't know if y'all have seen this, but if we can all get Jython back
>> up and going there's going to be folks interested in hearing about it at
>> JavaOne. It's also motivation to get done what we want to get done.
>>
>> Please try to submit at least one talk...and maybe more if any of you
>> have related talks you think would be worth presenting. I'm keen to see
>> the major dynlangs like Python and Ruby take back JavaOne.
>
> Just a reminder guys, I'd love to see some of you try to present at
> JavaOne, and I'm sure Jython will be clicking along really well by then.
>
> --
> Charles Oliver Nutter, JRuby Core Developer
> Blogging on Ruby and Java @ headius.blogspot.com
> Help spec out Ruby today! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec
> [hidden email] -- [hidden email]
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev 


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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Josh Juneau-2
My fault...I was skim-reading...he is giving a presentation at PyCon....not
JavaOne.

My apologies.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Juneau" <[hidden email]>
To: "Charles Oliver Nutter" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "jython-dev" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Jython-dev] [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]


> Frank will be giving a presentation...he sent this to the jython-users
> list:
>
> My proposal, Jython for Python Developers
> "http://us.pycon.org/apps07/proposals/93/", has been accepted, so I'll
> be doing a Jython talk at this year's PyCon.
>
> -Frank
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Oliver Nutter" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Charles Oliver Nutter" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "jython-dev" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Jython-dev] [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]
>
>
>> Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:
>>> I don't know if y'all have seen this, but if we can all get Jython back
>>> up and going there's going to be folks interested in hearing about it at
>>> JavaOne. It's also motivation to get done what we want to get done.
>>>
>>> Please try to submit at least one talk...and maybe more if any of you
>>> have related talks you think would be worth presenting. I'm keen to see
>>> the major dynlangs like Python and Ruby take back JavaOne.
>>
>> Just a reminder guys, I'd love to see some of you try to present at
>> JavaOne, and I'm sure Jython will be clicking along really well by then.
>>
>> --
>> Charles Oliver Nutter, JRuby Core Developer
>> Blogging on Ruby and Java @ headius.blogspot.com
>> Help spec out Ruby today! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec
>> [hidden email] -- [hidden email]
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev
>
>
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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

oti-3
In reply to this post by Charles Oliver Nutter-2
Hi Charles, others,

I submitted a paper with the title "Jython and Java: Plug & Play".
My aim is to show show how well Java and Jython interact.

Since I have no experience in submitting papers, I have no idea if it
has a chance to be accepted..
And - second - if my company will let me go.

best wishes,
Oti.

On 12/2/06, Charles Oliver Nutter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:
> > I don't know if y'all have seen this, but if we can all get Jython back
> > up and going there's going to be folks interested in hearing about it at
> > JavaOne. It's also motivation to get done what we want to get done.
> >
> > Please try to submit at least one talk...and maybe more if any of you
> > have related talks you think would be worth presenting. I'm keen to see
> > the major dynlangs like Python and Ruby take back JavaOne.
>
> Just a reminder guys, I'd love to see some of you try to present at
> JavaOne, and I'm sure Jython will be clicking along really well by then.
>
> --
> Charles Oliver Nutter, JRuby Core Developer
> Blogging on Ruby and Java @ headius.blogspot.com
> Help spec out Ruby today! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec
> [hidden email] -- [hidden email]
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
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> _______________________________________________
> Jython-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev
>

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Josh Juneau-2
Good luck Oti.  That will be great news if you are able to present at
JavaOne.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Oti" <[hidden email]>
To: "Charles Oliver Nutter" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "jython-dev" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Jython-dev] [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]


> Hi Charles, others,
>
> I submitted a paper with the title "Jython and Java: Plug & Play".
> My aim is to show show how well Java and Jython interact.
>
> Since I have no experience in submitting papers, I have no idea if it
> has a chance to be accepted..
> And - second - if my company will let me go.
>
> best wishes,
> Oti.
>
> On 12/2/06, Charles Oliver Nutter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:
>> > I don't know if y'all have seen this, but if we can all get Jython back
>> > up and going there's going to be folks interested in hearing about it
>> > at
>> > JavaOne. It's also motivation to get done what we want to get done.
>> >
>> > Please try to submit at least one talk...and maybe more if any of you
>> > have related talks you think would be worth presenting. I'm keen to see
>> > the major dynlangs like Python and Ruby take back JavaOne.
>>
>> Just a reminder guys, I'd love to see some of you try to present at
>> JavaOne, and I'm sure Jython will be clicking along really well by then.
>>
>> --
>> Charles Oliver Nutter, JRuby Core Developer
>> Blogging on Ruby and Java @ headius.blogspot.com
>> Help spec out Ruby today! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec
>> [hidden email] -- [hidden email]
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
>> your
>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Charles Oliver Nutter-2
In reply to this post by oti-3
Oti wrote:
> Hi Charles, others,
>
> I submitted a paper with the title "Jython and Java: Plug & Play".
> My aim is to show show how well Java and Jython interact.
>
> Since I have no experience in submitting papers, I have no idea if it
> has a chance to be accepted..
> And - second - if my company will let me go.

Excellent. If there's anything I can do to help your paper get in or
help you present, I'll try to do it. I'd love to have more dynamic
languages than just Groovy be well represented.

--
Charles Oliver Nutter, JRuby Core Developer
Blogging on Ruby and Java @ headius.blogspot.com
Help spec out Ruby today! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec
[hidden email] -- [hidden email]

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

oti-3
Charles,

my talk was accepted - great !
Am I right that this decision was considerably influenced by you ?

Thank you very much !
I'm looking forward to it (20 days left to write).

Oti.

------------
From: JavaOne Conference Content Team
To: Otmar Humbel
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2007 3:22:40 AM
Subject: 2007 JavaOne Conference Proposal Notification

Dear Otmar Humbel,

Congratulations! Your submission TS-9574 entitled " Jython and Java:
Plug & Play " was so compelling that the JavaOne Program Committee has
decided to accept your proposal to speak at the upcoming 2007 JavaOne
Conference in San Francisco, California, May 8-11, 2007.

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Charles Oliver Nutter-2
Oti wrote:
> Charles,
>
> my talk was accepted - great !
> Am I right that this decision was considerably influenced by you ?
>
> Thank you very much !
> I'm looking forward to it (20 days left to write).

Well really all I did was offer to give up one of my JRuby talks so that
your Jython talk could be included. The JavaOne committee agreed to
those terms and made it happen.

Now let's see what you Jythonistas can get done by May :)

- Charlie

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On 3/2/07, Charles Oliver Nutter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Now let's see what you Jythonistas can get done by May :)
Sounds like there is going to be so much good stuff!  It turns out
that I can't make it for a number of personal and work-related reasons
:(

Please publish slides for those of us who can't make it!

-Frank

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

oti-3
Frank,

I plan to publish drafts of them as soon as possible, to get the
review of you all.

What I particularly would appreciate at the moment are:
 - statements about the current development status
 - statements about the future
of Jython.

So please feel free to send your comments to me, I'll do my best to
weave them in.

Thanks in advance !
Oti.

On 3/2/07, Frank Wierzbicki <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/2/07, Charles Oliver Nutter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Now let's see what you Jythonistas can get done by May :)
> Sounds like there is going to be so much good stuff!  It turns out
> that I can't make it for a number of personal and work-related reasons
> :(
>
> Please publish slides for those of us who can't make it!
>
> -Frank
>

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On 3/2/07, Oti <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Frank,
>
> I plan to publish drafts of them as soon as possible, to get the
> review of you all.
>
> What I particularly would appreciate at the moment are:
>  - statements about the current development status
>  - statements about the future
> of Jython.
>From discussing the roadmap with other Jythoners at PyCon -- we are
trying to target spring as the time to get to a 2.2 final.  Beyond 2.2
things are still quite fuzzy -- but it will certainly take far less
time to get the next release out when compared to the 2.1->2.2 phase.
CPython has been adding features much more slowly since 2.2, and we
already have many (if not most) 2.3 features implemented.

-Frank

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Charles Oliver Nutter-2
In reply to this post by oti-3
Oti wrote:

> Frank,
>
> I plan to publish drafts of them as soon as possible, to get the
> review of you all.
>
> What I particularly would appreciate at the moment are:
> - statements about the current development status
> - statements about the future
> of Jython.
>
> So please feel free to send your comments to me, I'll do my best to
> weave them in.

I'd personally like to also see a roundup of what Leo's working on as
part of this talk at JavaOne. While the primary Jython train is chugging
toward complete 2.2 compatibility, Leo may make some good progress on
the more wild and crazy side of things. The two versions presented
together could help show there's a lot of action in the Jython world.

- Charlie

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Frank Cohen
A very good point. I haven't been reading the Jython emails lately.  
What is Leo up to? -Frank



On Mar 2, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:

> Oti wrote:
>> Frank,
>>
>> I plan to publish drafts of them as soon as possible, to get the
>> review of you all.
>>
>> What I particularly would appreciate at the moment are:
>> - statements about the current development status
>> - statements about the future
>> of Jython.
>>
>> So please feel free to send your comments to me, I'll do my best to
>> weave them in.
>
> I'd personally like to also see a roundup of what Leo's working on as
> part of this talk at JavaOne. While the primary Jython train is  
> chugging
> toward complete 2.2 compatibility, Leo may make some good progress on
> the more wild and crazy side of things. The two versions presented
> together could help show there's a lot of action in the Jython world.
>
> - Charlie
>
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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Leo User
In reply to this post by Charles Oliver Nutter-2
Im working on getting "jythonx" founded.  I finished
up on the 2nd pass through of "new style/java class"
integration.  Its been a pretty interesting journey so
far, its somewhat fun to see stuff like:
class a(swing.JLabel, int):
    pass

actually work.  I quickly ran into the fun of
deciphering why "remove" on a JFrame was tossing an
ArrayOutOfBoundsException.  Since the instance of "a"
is also an "int", the first pass in deciding what
method to call successfully turned the object into an
Integer and called:
remove(int i)
instead of
remove(Component c)

I had to laugh about this one.  Multiple inheritence
still seems to be the tool of the mad.

Ive got the code up on svn, but the project hasn't
entered the "visibility/project approved" stage yet so
its still my secret. :D  Its going to be an
incremental project, which means dependance on vanilla
jython for bootstraping the new code is going to exist
for a duration.

One thing that became clear is that the JVM is
adequate for many things,  it doesn't seem adequate
enough for this type of integration.  "Hotswapping" as
a JVM feature really seems important.  When a new
class is generated, the only sensible strategy seems
to be conservative in what methods are overriden.  In
this case that means only overriding methods that
correspond to jython defined ones.  Taking the blunt
approach of doing all the methods, eats memory like a
pig.  Classic classes appear to follow this
conservative path.  But it still relegates mutation to
second class status:
class a(swing.JLabel, object): pass
#Ok class is generated, without any overriden methods.
def zooba(self):
    return "ZOOBA"
a.getText = zooba
i = a()
i.getText()
#This works here but:
jf = swing.JFrame()
jf.add(i)
#The getText method doesn't get called

Now if we had "hotswapping", we could keep the
conservative path and add the added methods as they
happen.  An alternative Ive been spinning around is if
there was some form of cheap pre-call method that
could be used.  If each Jython/Java class had to just
add:

Object premptiveMethod(String methodName, Object[]
args){

}

which would be called before each Jython/Java method
invocation and had the chance to prempt that call and
takes its place, maybe life without hotswapping would
be ok.  I think that would certainly eliminate any
need to override most methods in a generated
Jython/Java class.  It also would eliminate the need
to watch when methods were added or removed, which
would be needed if there was a hotswapping approach
used.

leouser


--- Charles Oliver Nutter <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Oti wrote:
> > Frank,
> >
> > I plan to publish drafts of them as soon as
> possible, to get the
> > review of you all.
> >
> > What I particularly would appreciate at the moment
> are:
> > - statements about the current development status
> > - statements about the future
> > of Jython.
> >
> > So please feel free to send your comments to me,
> I'll do my best to
> > weave them in.
>
> I'd personally like to also see a roundup of what
> Leo's working on as
> part of this talk at JavaOne. While the primary
> Jython train is chugging
> toward complete 2.2 compatibility, Leo may make some
> good progress on
> the more wild and crazy side of things. The two
> versions presented
> together could help show there's a lot of action in
> the Jython world.
>
> - Charlie
>
>
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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Eric Dobbs
In reply to this post by Charles Oliver Nutter-2

On Mar 2, 2007, at 3:06 PM, Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:

> I'd personally like to also see a roundup of what Leo's working on as
> part of this talk at JavaOne. While the primary Jython train is  
> chugging
> toward complete 2.2 compatibility, Leo may make some good progress on
> the more wild and crazy side of things. The two versions presented
> together could help show there's a lot of action in the Jython world.

Speaking of action in the jython world, Jim Baker and Michael Taylor  
also spent a good bit of time at the sprints trying to see what  
leverage they could get out of ANTLR towards more 2.5 language  
features.  There may be fun things in there to include too.

-Eric

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Leo User

--- Eric Dobbs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Speaking of action in the jython world, Jim Baker
> and Michael Taylor  
> also spent a good bit of time at the sprints trying
> to see what  
> leverage they could get out of ANTLR towards more
> 2.5 language  
> features.  There may be fun things in there to
> include too.
>
> -Eric

You guys have an ANTLR parser out theres somewhere?
That sounds like it would be fun to look at.  Any
links?

leouser


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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On 3/2/07, Leo User <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You guys have an ANTLR parser out theres somewhere?
> That sounds like it would be fun to look at.  Any
> links?
I'm sure they are starting with the 2.3 Python parser written by
Terence Parr and Loring Craymer that can be found here:
http://www.antlr.org/grammar/list

But I don't know how far they have taken it...

-Frank

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Jim Baker
Correct, the Terence/Loring 2.3 grammar is the starting point Michael Taylor and I looked at during the sprint at PyCon. (This reverses an earlier position I had stated of not changing out parsers. Michael was very persuasive.)

So the approach we are currently taking is to develop a parallel parser in Antlr (Groovy), and a compiler targeting ASM (Groovy, under dev in JRuby). Knowledge sharing across JVM dynamic languages is one aspect of this, as is ease of development. Being able to use the existing Jython infrastructure while doing so certainly made our work in the sprint much easier, and will also provide for much better opportunities for testing and cross validation during the transition.

Some initial thoughts:
  • This grammar is really easy to modify! We didn't focus too much time on this, but it's a good reason to choose LL grammars like Antlr. I think the one thing I have done is eliminate the special casing for try/except and try/finally. We should have a 2.5+ grammar available pretty soon.
  • Generational grammar aspects in Antlr 3.0 (which is in beta, so safe enough for this effort) are going to be very important. I don't think Terence has enough examples in his new book or on the web site, but with a modest amount of play I was able to get the start of a useful AST being generated.
  • Tree grammars seem to offer a lot of power in terms of controlling the bytecode generation process (visitors). To be looked into next.

- Jim

On 3/2/07, Frank Wierzbicki <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 3/2/07, Leo User <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You guys have an ANTLR parser out theres somewhere?
> That sounds like it would be fun to look at.  Any
> links?
I'm sure they are starting with the 2.3 Python parser written by
Terence Parr and Loring Craymer that can be found here:
http://www.antlr.org/grammar/list

But I don't know how far they have taken it...

-Frank

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Re: [Fwd: JavaOne Update: Call for Papers Now Open]

Leo User
If you guys end up looking for a home for this stuff, ping me and Ill 
see where I can stick it in jythonx and get you involved if interested.
It sounds like it would fit in with the project's mission. Ive got one
"pre" user who wants to get Django running, so thats probably going to
tie my hands up from pitching in with this cool sounding thing.

Ive been thinking lately about how a higher level code compiler could
improve things, not to mention learning one of these toolkits. The
Code object in jython is fairly primitive, so it doesn't seem to lend
itself to much more that outputing byte code. The JavaCC stuff is pretty
interesting to work with and makes me a little curious about ANTLR.

leouser

Jim Baker <[hidden email]> wrote:
Correct, the Terence/Loring 2.3 grammar is the starting point Michael Taylor and I looked at during the sprint at PyCon. (This reverses an earlier position I had stated of not changing out parsers. Michael was very persuasive.)

So the approach we are currently taking is to develop a parallel parser in Antlr (Groovy), and a compiler targeting ASM (Groovy, under dev in JRuby). Knowledge sharing across JVM dynamic languages is one aspect of this, as is ease of development. Being able to use the existing Jython infrastructure while doing so certainly made our work in the sprint much easier, and will also provide for much better opportunities for testing and cross validation during the transition.

Some initial thoughts:
  • This grammar is really easy to modify! We didn't focus too much time on this, but it's a good reason to choose LL grammars like Antlr. I think the one thing I have done is eliminate the special casing for try/except and try/finally. We should have a 2.5+ grammar available pretty soon.
  • Generational grammar aspects in Antlr 3.0 (which is in beta, so safe enough for this effort) are going to be very important. I don't think Terence has enough examples in his new book or on the web site, but with a modest amount of play I was able to get the start of a useful AST being generated.
  • Tree grammars seem to offer a lot of power in terms of controlling the bytecode generation process (visitors). To be looked into next.




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