Ironpython and Berkeley License

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Ironpython and Berkeley License

Markus Schaber-6
Hi,

The binary installer of IronPython 2.6 contains the lib subdirectory,
which seems to be a rather 1:1 copy of the cPython standard library.

This standard library contains a LICENSE.txt file that, besides others,
contains the Berkeley Database License:

--- snip ---
This copy of Python includes a copy of Berkeley DB, which is licensed
under the following terms:
[...]

 * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on
 *    how to obtain complete source code for the DB software and any
 *    accompanying software that uses the DB software.  The source code
 *    must either be included in the distribution or be available for no
 *    more than the cost of distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be
 *    freely redistributable under reasonable conditions. [...]
--- snap ---

This seems to be a GPL-like viral license, which would be somewhat
harassing for our current project.

However, it seems that the bsddb module is not included in IronPython
(because it is not compatible with IronPython at the moment).

Is there someone who can confirm that the Berkeley DB and the code
covered by that license is currently not part of IronPython?

Best regards

Markus Schaber

___________________________
We software Automation.

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Markus Schaber | Developer
Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
Fax +49-831-54031-50

Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com 
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Re: Ironpython and Berkeley License

Jimmy Schementi-3
That license applies to the CPython standard library. The Apache 2
License covers everything in IronPython*.dll.

~Jimmy

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Markus Schaber
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The binary installer of IronPython 2.6 contains the lib subdirectory,
> which seems to be a rather 1:1 copy of the cPython standard library.
>
> This standard library contains a LICENSE.txt file that, besides others,
> contains the Berkeley Database License:
>
> --- snip ---
> This copy of Python includes a copy of Berkeley DB, which is licensed
> under the following terms:
> [...]
>
>  * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on
>  *    how to obtain complete source code for the DB software and any
>  *    accompanying software that uses the DB software.  The source code
>  *    must either be included in the distribution or be available for no
>  *    more than the cost of distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be
>  *    freely redistributable under reasonable conditions. [...]
> --- snap ---
>
> This seems to be a GPL-like viral license, which would be somewhat
> harassing for our current project.
>
> However, it seems that the bsddb module is not included in IronPython
> (because it is not compatible with IronPython at the moment).
>
> Is there someone who can confirm that the Berkeley DB and the code
> covered by that license is currently not part of IronPython?
>
> Best regards
>
> Markus Schaber
>
> ___________________________
> We software Automation.
>
> 3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
> Markus Schaber | Developer
> Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
> Fax +49-831-54031-50
>
> Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com
> CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com
> Download CoDeSys sample projects:
> http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects
>
> Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner |
> Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
>
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Re: Ironpython and Berkeley License

Jeff Hardy-4
In reply to this post by Markus Schaber-6
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Markus Schaber
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>  * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on
>  *    how to obtain complete source code for the DB software and any
>  *    accompanying software that uses the DB software.  The source code
>  *    must either be included in the distribution or be available for no
>  *    more than the cost of distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be
>  *    freely redistributable under reasonable conditions. [...]
> --- snap ---
>
> This seems to be a GPL-like viral license, which would be somewhat
> harassing for our current project.

IANAL, blah blah, but that doesn't read like the GPL, which requires
all *derivative works* to have the source available - that licence
just requires the source *to Berkeley DB* be made available.

In any case, Berkeley DB isn't even included, so it shouldn't be an issue.

- Jeff
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Re: Ironpython and Berkeley License

Markus Schaber-6
In reply to this post by Jimmy Schementi-3
Hi, Jimmy,

We use IronPython 2.6 which is not covered by the Apache license, but still by some Microsoftish license.

However, we want to redistribute the python part of the python standard library (which is distributed with the IronPython 2.6.2 binary installer for windows as well), so our users can use the full power of all those nice .py modules, and those are covered by a LICENSE.txt file which contains a concatenation of several licenses that also cover the 3rd party libraries implemented in C delivered with cPython.

As it seems, however, the packager of the IronPython installer simply copied the LICENSE.txt without removing those licenses that don't apply to the pure python part of the license.

Best regards

Markus Schaber

___________________________
We software Automation.

3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
Markus Schaber | Developer
Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 | Fax +49-831-54031-50

Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com 
CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com
Download CoDeSys sample projects: http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects

Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner | Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Jimmy Schementi
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. März 2011 17:08
An: Discussion of IronPython
Betreff: Re: [IronPython] Ironpython and Berkeley License

That license applies to the CPython standard library. The Apache 2 License covers everything in IronPython*.dll.

~Jimmy

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Markus Schaber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The binary installer of IronPython 2.6 contains the lib subdirectory,
> which seems to be a rather 1:1 copy of the cPython standard library.
>
> This standard library contains a LICENSE.txt file that, besides
> others, contains the Berkeley Database License:
>
> --- snip ---
> This copy of Python includes a copy of Berkeley DB, which is licensed
> under the following terms:
> [...]
>
>  * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information
> on
>  *    how to obtain complete source code for the DB software and any
>  *    accompanying software that uses the DB software.  The source
> code
>  *    must either be included in the distribution or be available for
> no
>  *    more than the cost of distribution plus a nominal fee, and must
> be
>  *    freely redistributable under reasonable conditions. [...]
> --- snap ---
>
> This seems to be a GPL-like viral license, which would be somewhat
> harassing for our current project.
>
> However, it seems that the bsddb module is not included in IronPython
> (because it is not compatible with IronPython at the moment).
>
> Is there someone who can confirm that the Berkeley DB and the code
> covered by that license is currently not part of IronPython?
>
> Best regards
>
> Markus Schaber
>
> ___________________________
> We software Automation.
>
> 3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
> Markus Schaber | Developer
> Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
> Fax +49-831-54031-50
>
> Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com 
> CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com Download CoDeSys
> sample projects:
> http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects
>
> Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner |
> Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
>
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
_______________________________________________
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Re: Ironpython and Berkeley License

Jimmy Schementi-3
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Markus Schaber
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi, Jimmy,
>
> We use IronPython 2.6 which is not covered by the Apache license, but still by some Microsoftish license.

The Microsoftish-license is the Microsoft Public License:
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/ms-pl

> However, we want to redistribute the python part of the python standard library (which is distributed with the IronPython 2.6.2 binary installer for windows as well), so our users can use the full power of all those nice .py modules, and those are covered by a LICENSE.txt file which contains a concatenation of several licenses that also cover the 3rd party libraries implemented in C delivered with cPython.
>
> As it seems, however, the packager of the IronPython installer simply copied the LICENSE.txt without removing those licenses that don't apply to the pure python part of the license.

Because IronPython redistributes the Python standard library, it is
kept in-tact, including any license files. If the Python standard
library's LICENSE.txt is unclear as to what parts of Python are under
what license (which IMO it is), then that's feedback we can take to
the CPython team. Looks like they have more informative license
information here: http://docs.python.org/license.html

But it sounds like if you wanted to embed CPython in your application
you would not be OK with doing that because of the license?

> Best regards
>
> Markus Schaber
>
> ___________________________
> We software Automation.
>
> 3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
> Markus Schaber | Developer
> Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 | Fax +49-831-54031-50
>
> Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com
> CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com
> Download CoDeSys sample projects: http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects
>
> Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner | Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Jimmy Schementi
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. März 2011 17:08
> An: Discussion of IronPython
> Betreff: Re: [IronPython] Ironpython and Berkeley License
>
> That license applies to the CPython standard library. The Apache 2 License covers everything in IronPython*.dll.
>
> ~Jimmy
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Markus Schaber <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The binary installer of IronPython 2.6 contains the lib subdirectory,
>> which seems to be a rather 1:1 copy of the cPython standard library.
>>
>> This standard library contains a LICENSE.txt file that, besides
>> others, contains the Berkeley Database License:
>>
>> --- snip ---
>> This copy of Python includes a copy of Berkeley DB, which is licensed
>> under the following terms:
>> [...]
>>
>>  * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information
>> on
>>  *    how to obtain complete source code for the DB software and any
>>  *    accompanying software that uses the DB software.  The source
>> code
>>  *    must either be included in the distribution or be available for
>> no
>>  *    more than the cost of distribution plus a nominal fee, and must
>> be
>>  *    freely redistributable under reasonable conditions. [...]
>> --- snap ---
>>
>> This seems to be a GPL-like viral license, which would be somewhat
>> harassing for our current project.
>>
>> However, it seems that the bsddb module is not included in IronPython
>> (because it is not compatible with IronPython at the moment).
>>
>> Is there someone who can confirm that the Berkeley DB and the code
>> covered by that license is currently not part of IronPython?
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Markus Schaber
>>
>> ___________________________
>> We software Automation.
>>
>> 3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
>> Markus Schaber | Developer
>> Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
>> Fax +49-831-54031-50
>>
>> Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com
>> CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com Download CoDeSys
>> sample projects:
>> http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects
>>
>> Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner |
>> Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
>
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Re: Ironpython and Berkeley License

Markus Schaber-6
Hi, Jimmy,

Thanks for the pointer, I'll ask the cPython people.

Our Lawyer specifically dislikes paragraph 3 of the Berkeley DB license, which states: "[...] information how to obtain complete source code for the DB software _and_any_accompanying_software_ that uses the DB software.[...]".

So if we manage to exclude all parts which are covered by the Berkeley DB license (and thus the BDB license itself), we are fine with both cPython and IronPython licenses, as well as all other licenses in LICENSE.txt.

Besides that, our Software is nearly 100% .NET, so IronPython is the much better choice than cPython from an integration aspect.

Best regards

Markus Schaber

___________________________
We software Automation.

3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
Markus Schaber | Developer
Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 | Fax +49-831-54031-50

Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com 
CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com
Download CoDeSys sample projects: http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects

Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner | Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Jimmy Schementi
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. März 2011 17:46
An: Discussion of IronPython
Betreff: Re: [IronPython] Ironpython and Berkeley License

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Markus Schaber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi, Jimmy,
>
> We use IronPython 2.6 which is not covered by the Apache license, but still by some Microsoftish license.

The Microsoftish-license is the Microsoft Public License:
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/ms-pl

> However, we want to redistribute the python part of the python standard library (which is distributed with the IronPython 2.6.2 binary installer for windows as well), so our users can use the full power of all those nice .py modules, and those are covered by a LICENSE.txt file which contains a concatenation of several licenses that also cover the 3rd party libraries implemented in C delivered with cPython.
>
> As it seems, however, the packager of the IronPython installer simply copied the LICENSE.txt without removing those licenses that don't apply to the pure python part of the license.

Because IronPython redistributes the Python standard library, it is kept in-tact, including any license files. If the Python standard library's LICENSE.txt is unclear as to what parts of Python are under what license (which IMO it is), then that's feedback we can take to the CPython team. Looks like they have more informative license information here: http://docs.python.org/license.html

But it sounds like if you wanted to embed CPython in your application you would not be OK with doing that because of the license?

> Best regards
>
> Markus Schaber
>
> ___________________________
> We software Automation.
>
> 3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
> Markus Schaber | Developer
> Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
> Fax +49-831-54031-50
>
> Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com 
> CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com Download CoDeSys
> sample projects:
> http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects
>
> Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner |
> Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Jimmy
> Schementi
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. März 2011 17:08
> An: Discussion of IronPython
> Betreff: Re: [IronPython] Ironpython and Berkeley License
>
> That license applies to the CPython standard library. The Apache 2 License covers everything in IronPython*.dll.
>
> ~Jimmy
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Markus Schaber <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The binary installer of IronPython 2.6 contains the lib subdirectory,
>> which seems to be a rather 1:1 copy of the cPython standard library.
>>
>> This standard library contains a LICENSE.txt file that, besides
>> others, contains the Berkeley Database License:
>>
>> --- snip ---
>> This copy of Python includes a copy of Berkeley DB, which is licensed
>> under the following terms:
>> [...]
>>
>>  * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information
>> on
>>  *    how to obtain complete source code for the DB software and any
>>  *    accompanying software that uses the DB software.  The source
>> code
>>  *    must either be included in the distribution or be available for
>> no
>>  *    more than the cost of distribution plus a nominal fee, and must
>> be
>>  *    freely redistributable under reasonable conditions. [...]
>> --- snap ---
>>
>> This seems to be a GPL-like viral license, which would be somewhat
>> harassing for our current project.
>>
>> However, it seems that the bsddb module is not included in IronPython
>> (because it is not compatible with IronPython at the moment).
>>
>> Is there someone who can confirm that the Berkeley DB and the code
>> covered by that license is currently not part of IronPython?
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Markus Schaber
>>
>> ___________________________
>> We software Automation.
>>
>> 3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
>> Markus Schaber | Developer
>> Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
>> Fax +49-831-54031-50
>>
>> Email: [hidden email] | Web: http://www.3s-software.com 
>> CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com Download CoDeSys
>> sample projects:
>> http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects
>>
>> Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner |
>> Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
>
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
_______________________________________________
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