Jython 2.2 Beta1

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Jython 2.2 Beta1

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
The Jython development team is proud to announce the release of Jython
2.2's first beta!

Get it here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=12867&package_id=12218&release_id=485053

Install like this:
java -jar java -jar jython_installer-2.2b1.jar

Cheers!

-Frank Wierzbicki

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Pekka Klärck
2007/2/9, Roger Marquis <[hidden email]>:
> Jython/c itself, however, still has some apparently Windows-centric
> behaviors that will continue to hamper cross-platform adoption:

I've also noticed that Jython installer doesn't follow unix
conventions. Could you submit all concreate issues into [1]? I've
noticed myself that issues submitted there tend to get fixed -- see
for example Windows installer related [2] that was fixed for beta. Of
course you can then also submit fixes into [3] if you have something
available (should start doing that myself too...).

[1] http://jython.org/bugs
[2] http://jython.org/bugs/1565629
[3] http://jython.org/patches

Thanks a lot for the developemt team for the beta!

Cheers,
    .peke

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
In reply to this post by fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On 2/8/07, Roger Marquis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The Jython development team is proud to announce the release of Jython
> > 2.2's first beta! Get it here:
> > <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=12867&package_id=12218&release_id=485053>
>
> The installer works _great_, though it could be more user-friendly if
> packaged as a self-contained shar script, and/or rpm/deb/pkg/...
When we get to a GA, I'm going to at least make sure there is an rpm.
I work at Red Hat and I am sitting next to at least one RPM expert,
and I'd like to see Jython 2.2 make it into the next Fedora.  I'll
also be very willing to help with anyone who wants to create a deb,
ebuild, pkg, etc, but probably not until we are in the "release
candidate" phases.

>   * Cache and other temporary files are written in application or user
>   home directories.  This contradicts Unix/Linux conventions which
>   require shared applications to reside in directories writable only
>   by root.
There are options to either turn off the cache or send them to a
particular directory.  However these options do need better docs and
could perhaps have better defaults when in *nix land.

>     Solution: Use only /tmp, /var/tmp, or /var/jython for temporary or
>     transient files.  Persistent writable directories should adopt
>     standards set by other OSS, /{var/,}tmp/.jython_${USER}, and
>     specify a secure umask (077).
>   * Executable files are not installed in a standard $PATH'ed
>   directory.
>
>     Solution: 'ln -s $JYTHON_HOME/jython{,c} /usr/local/bin'
>
Ah but we don't want to be completely *nix centric either -- but
again, sensible defaults are a good suggestion.

>   * Class file names contain metacharacters ($).
The $ is common in .class files (for example inner classes use $).
Not sure if this one is a likely change.

>     Solution: Do not use spaces or other metacharacters in any file or
>     directory name.
This is just about $, right?

>   * Non-license-related text confounds the license agreement page.
I have to agree with this one, but I'm not a lawyer and CPython does
the exact same embedding of history and prior licenses.  Don't know if
we can easily change this.

>   * Still runs slow.
>
>     One Solution: Eliminate support for Java versions that are now rare
>     i.e, pre-1.4.
We will be doing this in the next release, but other than requiring a
higher minimum JDK/JRE, performance is not going to be specifically
addressed in this or the next release.  The one after that will
probably look hard at performance.

>   * Documentation is still wholly insufficient and often internally
>   inconsistent.
That is a fair assessment.  Want to help (I see below that you do --
the wiki is open to anyone, but I will need to document how to help
with the website).

>     One Solution: Start with a freshly structured redesign and open it
>     to CVS or Wiki updates, Reduce or eliminate the Windows-centric
>     sections, and add or clarify step-by-step instructions for
>     first-time users.
The new website has been moved to svn, and has been moved to a format
that is fairly easy to update (docutils/ReStructuredText) but I need
to put up some docs on how to update the website.

>   * No jython or jythonc man() pages are installed.
This will probably be included in the above-mentioned rpm.  I believe
ReStructuredText can be processed into man pages.

>   * Lacks an industry sponsor.
>
>     Solution: Print business cards, compile a portfolio, and start
>     making phone calls...
Phone calls eh?  :)

Eventually I hope to convince my own employer (Red Hat) to approve
some of my cycles for Jython -- and perhaps lend other support, but I
am still a little new at Red Hat... but with the fairly recent
addition of JBoss to the company, I probably have a business case to
make.

> These issues could well be behind Sun's push for adoption of Groovy
> instead of Jython as the de-facto scripting language for Java, even
> though Groovy is hardly a 'scripting' language in the normal sense.
You think Sun is really pushing here?  The just hired 2 guys to work
on JRuby and bundled an implementation of Javascript in Java6.  I
don't think Sun is playing favorites at this point.  I think they are
supporting Groovy, but I think they would like to see Jython succeed
as well.

> None of this should be regarded as being in any way ingrateful for the
> long hours and fantastic work of Jython volunteers.  I, for one, am
> very grateful despite not yet having been able to incorporate a
> jython-generated jar into any projects.  None of us want to see all
> this good work go for naught...  And yes, I would like to help,
> particularly with the website / wiki / documentation.  Project
> coordinators please feel free to contact me off-list.
Cool, I'm glad that you would like to help with the docs, they really
need it.  I prefer to keep discussions on-list if at all possible, in
case the discussion can help others.  I'll try to get some
website-updating instructions onto the site soon.

Regards,

-Frank

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Re: Jython 2.2 Beta1

Nicolas Duboc
In reply to this post by fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 08:45:04PM -0500, Frank Wierzbicki wrote:
> The Jython development team is proud to announce the release of Jython
> 2.2's first beta!

  Great !
  I will try to package that for Debian (experimental) in the next week.

  Regards,

--
Nicolas Duboc <[hidden email]>

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Sean McGrath
In reply to this post by fwierzbicki@gmail.com
[Roger Marquis]
>> These issues could well be behind Sun's push for adoption of Groovy
>> instead of Jython as the de-facto scripting language for Java, even
>> though Groovy is hardly a 'scripting' language in the normal sense.
>>    
[Frank Wierzbicki]
> You think Sun is really pushing here?  The just hired 2 guys to work
> on JRuby and bundled an implementation of Javascript in Java6.  I
> don't think Sun is playing favorites at this point.  I think they are
> supporting Groovy, but I think they would like to see Jython succeed
> as well.
>  
This is my assessment of Sun's position too based on some conversations
with Sun folk.
Sun are taking a "let a thousand flowers bloom" approach and letting
market forces/karma
work out where the centers (plural) of gravity will be in dynamic languages.

Bottom line: if "the community" can make Jython move forward, industry
sponsors
will follow. Momentum breeds momentum and all that.

Note also that we should not look sight of the indirect attention Jython
can get
as IronPython moves forward. (See today: Jon Udell:
http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/02/08/my-first-ironpython-application/).
I blogged it Jythonically here :
<a href="http://seanmcgrath.blogspot.com/2007_02_04_seanmcgrath_archive.html#5709267427074522898#5709267427074522898">http://seanmcgrath.blogspot.com/2007_02_04_seanmcgrath_archive.html#5709267427074522898#5709267427074522898

Side note: Lots of Barcamps going on around the world. Get ye to your
local BarCam and present ye
the wonders of Jython to all the assembled startups :-)

<a href="http://seanmcgrath.blogspot.com/2007_02_04_seanmcgrath_archive.html#8625207615248469362#8625207615248469362">http://seanmcgrath.blogspot.com/2007_02_04_seanmcgrath_archive.html#8625207615248469362#8625207615248469362

Sean


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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1 - website broken?

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
In reply to this post by fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On 2/9/07, Philipp Walther <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I wanted to check out the changelog for this release, but I'm
> getting a 403 on http://www.jython.org/Project/index.html..
oops -- that's what I get for mucking with permissions at 3am -- sorry
- you should be able to see the site now.
>
> Any other way to get the changelog? (assuming there is one)
See the file NEWS in the root of a Jython install.

Thanks,

-Frank

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Kent Johnson
In reply to this post by fwierzbicki@gmail.com
Frank Wierzbicki wrote:
> The Jython development team is proud to announce the release of Jython
> 2.2's first beta!
>
> Get it here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=12867&package_id=12218&release_id=485053
>
> Install like this:
> java -jar java -jar jython_installer-2.2b1.jar

I think one 'java -jar' is enough:

java -jar jython_installer-2.2b1.jar

Congratulations and thank you to Frank and all the other developers,
this is a watershed moment that has been a long time coming.

Kent


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Re: [Jython-announce] [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On 2/9/07, Kent Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Install like this:
> > java -jar java -jar jython_installer-2.2b1.jar
>
> I think one 'java -jar' is enough:
>
> java -jar jython_installer-2.2b1.jar
haha- I broke the website too (fixed now).  I should avoid 3am work...

-Frank

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Charlie Groves
In reply to this post by fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On 2/9/07, Frank Wierzbicki <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 2/8/07, Roger Marquis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >   * Documentation is still wholly insufficient and often internally
> >   inconsistent.
> That is a fair assessment.  Want to help (I see below that you do --
> the wiki is open to anyone, but I will need to document how to help
> with the website).

To get started, there are directions on building the website at
http://wiki.python.org/jython/JythonDeveloperGuide/WebsiteBuilderSetup
  Those directions should get you started on building the existing
website.  For small fixes or additions, submit a svn diff of your
website checkout to http://jython.org/patches If you've got bigger
plans, it'd be good to run them by jython-dev before getting too
carried away.

Charlie

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Charles Oliver Nutter-2
In reply to this post by fwierzbicki@gmail.com
Roger Marquis wrote:
>   * Lacks an industry sponsor.
>
>     Solution: Print business cards, compile a portfolio, and start
>     making phone calls...
>
> These issues could well be behind Sun's push for adoption of Groovy
> instead of Jython as the de-facto scripting language for Java, even
> though Groovy is hardly a 'scripting' language in the normal sense.

Sun is most definitely interested in pushing many alternative languages
for the JVM, and Jython, Groovy, and JRuby are equally considered (as
well as PHP, though that's a different sort of challenge). I think
however the perception of Jython as a dead project has really hurt it
over the past few years...getting your bloggers more vocal and your
releases more frequent (as well as your progress more rapid) would
really help cure this perception.

Is there something besides funded development time that would help
Jython move faster?

And seriously, many congratulations on the 2.2 beta...I'm going to plug
it hard.

- Charlie, JRuby Developer, Sun Engineer

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Leo User
Sun may be interested in taking Jython forward and so
am I.  Ive been working deligently on a "modernise
Jython" project.  I haven't decided on a home for this
yet but things are looking good.  Ive got 4 new
language features implemented, 3 passing unit tests. 1
at about 90%(the other 10% are because of jython silly
nits).  These would be features from 2.3 to 2.5(Id do
2.6 stuff but it isn't well defined).  Im in the next
phase, and after that it may be time to put some code
out there.

leouser

--- Charles Oliver Nutter <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Roger Marquis wrote:
> >   * Lacks an industry sponsor.
> >
> >     Solution: Print business cards, compile a
> portfolio, and start
> >     making phone calls...
> >
> > These issues could well be behind Sun's push for
> adoption of Groovy
> > instead of Jython as the de-facto scripting
> language for Java, even
> > though Groovy is hardly a 'scripting' language in
> the normal sense.
>
> Sun is most definitely interested in pushing many
> alternative languages
> for the JVM, and Jython, Groovy, and JRuby are
> equally considered (as
> well as PHP, though that's a different sort of
> challenge). I think
> however the perception of Jython as a dead project
> has really hurt it
> over the past few years...getting your bloggers more
> vocal and your
> releases more frequent (as well as your progress
> more rapid) would
> really help cure this perception.
>
> Is there something besides funded development time
> that would help
> Jython move faster?
>
> And seriously, many congratulations on the 2.2
> beta...I'm going to plug
> it hard.
>
> - Charlie, JRuby Developer, Sun Engineer
>
>
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> [hidden email]
>
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>



 
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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Charlie Groves
These are definitely some exciting sounding changes, so I hope you get
them out there soon.  I'd definitely like to check them out.  Are you
planning on putting your code out there under a license that would
allow your changes to be ported back to jython?

Charlie

On 2/14/07, Leo User <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sun may be interested in taking Jython forward and so
> am I.  Ive been working deligently on a "modernise
> Jython" project.  I haven't decided on a home for this
> yet but things are looking good.  Ive got 4 new
> language features implemented, 3 passing unit tests. 1
> at about 90%(the other 10% are because of jython silly
> nits).  These would be features from 2.3 to 2.5(Id do
> 2.6 stuff but it isn't well defined).  Im in the next
> phase, and after that it may be time to put some code
> out there.
>
> leouser
>
> --- Charles Oliver Nutter <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Roger Marquis wrote:
> > >   * Lacks an industry sponsor.
> > >
> > >     Solution: Print business cards, compile a
> > portfolio, and start
> > >     making phone calls...
> > >
> > > These issues could well be behind Sun's push for
> > adoption of Groovy
> > > instead of Jython as the de-facto scripting
> > language for Java, even
> > > though Groovy is hardly a 'scripting' language in
> > the normal sense.
> >
> > Sun is most definitely interested in pushing many
> > alternative languages
> > for the JVM, and Jython, Groovy, and JRuby are
> > equally considered (as
> > well as PHP, though that's a different sort of
> > challenge). I think
> > however the perception of Jython as a dead project
> > has really hurt it
> > over the past few years...getting your bloggers more
> > vocal and your
> > releases more frequent (as well as your progress
> > more rapid) would
> > really help cure this perception.
> >
> > Is there something besides funded development time
> > that would help
> > Jython move faster?
> >
> > And seriously, many congratulations on the 2.2
> > beta...I'm going to plug
> > it hard.
> >
> > - Charlie, JRuby Developer, Sun Engineer
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jython-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-dev
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
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>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Leo User
Well,  Im not particularly hip to the idea of having
conflicting licenses.  The biggest problem for anyone
trying to take stuff from it is that the new things
are not what I would consider modular.  In the process
of working on them, the unit tests that come with 2.5
expose things that are out of date or never worked
right.  So in other words, the environment has to
evolve as well.

The rewards seem nice though, some of these features
are pretty nice.  From my initial glances at context
managers in 2.5 I wasn't too excited.  But once I got
down into working with them I saw how much they could
simplify things... goodbye try/finally.

leouser


--- Charlie Groves <[hidden email]> wrote:

> These are definitely some exciting sounding changes,
> so I hope you get
> them out there soon.  I'd definitely like to check
> them out.  Are you
> planning on putting your code out there under a
> license that would
> allow your changes to be ported back to jython?
>
> Charlie
>
> On 2/14/07, Leo User <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Sun may be interested in taking Jython forward and
> so
> > am I.  Ive been working deligently on a "modernise
> > Jython" project.  I haven't decided on a home for
> this
> > yet but things are looking good.  Ive got 4 new
> > language features implemented, 3 passing unit
> tests. 1
> > at about 90%(the other 10% are because of jython
> silly
> > nits).  These would be features from 2.3 to 2.5(Id
> do
> > 2.6 stuff but it isn't well defined).  Im in the
> next
> > phase, and after that it may be time to put some
> code
> > out there.
> >
> > leouser
> >
> > --- Charles Oliver Nutter <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Roger Marquis wrote:
> > > >   * Lacks an industry sponsor.
> > > >
> > > >     Solution: Print business cards, compile a
> > > portfolio, and start
> > > >     making phone calls...
> > > >
> > > > These issues could well be behind Sun's push
> for
> > > adoption of Groovy
> > > > instead of Jython as the de-facto scripting
> > > language for Java, even
> > > > though Groovy is hardly a 'scripting' language
> in
> > > the normal sense.
> > >
> > > Sun is most definitely interested in pushing
> many
> > > alternative languages
> > > for the JVM, and Jython, Groovy, and JRuby are
> > > equally considered (as
> > > well as PHP, though that's a different sort of
> > > challenge). I think
> > > however the perception of Jython as a dead
> project
> > > has really hurt it
> > > over the past few years...getting your bloggers
> more
> > > vocal and your
> > > releases more frequent (as well as your progress
> > > more rapid) would
> > > really help cure this perception.
> > >
> > > Is there something besides funded development
> time
> > > that would help
> > > Jython move faster?
> > >
> > > And seriously, many congratulations on the 2.2
> > > beta...I'm going to plug
> > > it hard.
> > >
> > > - Charlie, JRuby Developer, Sun Engineer
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
On 2/15/07, Leo User <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Well,  Im not particularly hip to the idea of having
> conflicting licenses.
That's good to hear.

> The biggest problem for anyone
> trying to take stuff from it is that the new things
> are not what I would consider modular.  In the process
> of working on them, the unit tests that come with 2.5
> expose things that are out of date or never worked
> right.  So in other words, the environment has to
> evolve as well.
We *may* target 2.5 over here for the next rev.  I think it will be at
least 2.4, so we may not conflict as much as you worry (over time
anyway).  The bigger conflicts will be in the core stuff that you are
working on.  Jython is not ready for big core changes (for example,
changing the way we compile and the bytecodes we use etc.) But I think
we are all interested in how your experiments go.

> The rewards seem nice though, some of these features
> are pretty nice.  From my initial glances at context
> managers in 2.5 I wasn't too excited.  But once I got
> down into working with them I saw how much they could
> simplify things... goodbye try/finally.
I really love the context managers.

-Frank

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Leo User
--- Frank Wierzbicki <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/15/07, Leo User <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The biggest problem for anyone
> > trying to take stuff from it is that the new
> things
> > are not what I would consider modular.  In the
> process
> > of working on them, the unit tests that come with
> 2.5
> > expose things that are out of date or never worked
> > right.  So in other words, the environment has to
> > evolve as well.
> We *may* target 2.5 over here for the next rev.  I
> think it will be at
> least 2.4, so we may not conflict as much as you
> worry (over time
> anyway).  The bigger conflicts will be in the core
> stuff that you are
> working on.  Jython is not ready for big core
> changes (for example,
> changing the way we compile and the bytecodes we use
> etc.) But I think
> we are all interested in how your experiments go.
>
I don't think there are any plans on the project table
to change byte code compilation.  Anything that
significantly deviates may be offered as a command
switch.  My research into making Java method
invocations work faster is planned to be something the
user explicitly sets.  There may be end up being 3
options for the user to choose from:
1. default, reflective ways.
2. full force compiled proxies for everything
3. A mixture of 1 and 2, keep track of how often
something is executed and if it hits a threshold,
compile the darn thing.

The reality is that any one of these options may not
fit what a particular user has to have.  Its possible
that #2 may not be scalable(though from observation Im
not sure if this is true) for some apps, #3 may
address that situation, etc... .

Another thing that is on the table is getting new
style classes and java classes working together.  Ive
got an initial design and work done on it so that is
functional.  From running it by a hardcore python
acquatance of mine, it sounds ok.

leouser



 
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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

fwierzbicki@gmail.com
I removed jython-users from the cc list, since this is really a dev
discussion.  Replies inline:

On 2/15/07, Leo User <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My research into making Java method
> invocations work faster is planned to be something the
> user explicitly sets.  There may be end up being 3
> options for the user to choose from:
> 1. default, reflective ways.
> 2. full force compiled proxies for everything
> 3. A mixture of 1 and 2, keep track of how often
> something is executed and if it hits a threshold,
> compile the darn thing.
>
> The reality is that any one of these options may not
> fit what a particular user has to have.  Its possible
> that #2 may not be scalable(though from observation Im
> not sure if this is true) for some apps, #3 may
> address that situation, etc...
This sounds fine for experimentation, but for productions usage I
doubt many client programmers are going to want to think about
distinctions like these... At least I would always worry that
such-and-such bug might be because I am using the "wrong" strategy.
Also, I think it will make the codebase even more complex than it
already is if there are multiple paths like this being maintained.  If
it where me, I'd try to find which of these strategies was the best,
and make it the only approach.

> Another thing that is on the table is getting new
> style classes and java classes working together.  Ive
> got an initial design and work done on it so that is
> functional.  From running it by a hardcore python
> acquatance of mine, it sounds ok.
Very cool -- newstyle integration with Java is a notable lack in the
current implementation.

-Frank

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython 2.2 Beta1

Leo User

--- Frank Wierzbicki <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I removed jython-users from the cc list, since this
> is really a dev
> discussion.  Replies inline:
>
> On 2/15/07, Leo User <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > My research into making Java method
> > invocations work faster is planned to be something
> the
> > user explicitly sets.  There may be end up being 3
> > options for the user to choose from:
> > 1. default, reflective ways.
> > 2. full force compiled proxies for everything
> > 3. A mixture of 1 and 2, keep track of how often
> > something is executed and if it hits a threshold,
> > compile the darn thing.
> >
> > The reality is that any one of these options may
> not
> > fit what a particular user has to have.  Its
> possible
> > that #2 may not be scalable(though from
> observation Im
> > not sure if this is true) for some apps, #3 may
> > address that situation, etc...
> This sounds fine for experimentation, but for
> productions usage I
> doubt many client programmers are going to want to
> think about
> distinctions like these... At least I would always
> worry that
> such-and-such bug might be because I am using the
> "wrong" strategy.
> Also, I think it will make the codebase even more
> complex than it
> already is if there are multiple paths like this
> being maintained.  If
> it where me, I'd try to find which of these
> strategies was the best,
> and make it the only approach.

Well, there is much to be said about and for
simplicity.  Keeping the different systems isolated
shouldn't be that hard of a chore, its more of a
matter of putting the right calls to a factory in
place.   The current PyReflectedFunction isn't too
wicked of a class nor is the PyJavaMethodProxy Ive
been looking into.

 I personally like having different options to
experiment with.  From a VM standpoint it doesn't seem
that alien to configure the behavior of the machine,
for example see how Hotspot offers different GC
options.

leouser





 
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Context Managers and cross platform python (was Jython 2.2 Beta1)

Eric Dobbs
In reply to this post by Leo User
Leo, it's fun to hear that you're going after 2.5 features.  We  
(Front Range Pythoneers) have our eye on that ball too.  Context  
Managers have been pretty central to our conversations.

On Feb 15, 2007, at 8:01 AM, Leo User wrote:

> From my initial glances at context
> managers in 2.5 I wasn't too excited.  But once I got
> down into working with them I saw how much they could
> simplify things... goodbye try/finally.

In the long run we think JVMs need to be among platforms on which  
CPython code gets built -- that is to say, get Jython integrated into  
CPython's build bot so that python library maintainers become aware  
of whether their modules are actually cross-platform python.  Over  
the long haul, we think it's too much work to ask a small jython  
community (in comparison to CPython community)  to try to keep the  
language advancing in parallel with CPython while also having to port  
or patch significant chunks of the standard python libraries.    We'd  
like to ask the primary library maintainers to keep the JVM in mind  
as one of the platforms where their code might be useful.

The with statement and context managers represent a huge opportunity  
to localize the platform specific issues around resource allocation  
and deallocation throughout the python code base.  For example, if  
you have to grab a socket in order to do some network communications,  
that resource is very platform dependent between Unix, Windows, JVM,  
PyPy, Parrot and so on.  But the basics of provisioning and tear down  
of resources like network connections or keyboard input or graphics  
drivers or database connections or whathaveyou could happily live  
inside context managers.  Let the code that uses those context  
managers become much more generally portable python.  We see leverage  
to simplify more than just try/finally.

That's probably the most ambitious part of our conversations over the  
past few months.

Take care.
-Eric

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