PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

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PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Barry Warsaw
I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and PEPs
are as official as it gets 'round here.  Thus I propose the following.  If
there are no objections <wink>, I'll commit this taking the next available
number.

Cheers,
-Barry

PEP: 405
Title: Python 2.8 Release Schedule
Version: $Revision$
Last-Modified: $Date$
Author: Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>
Status: Final
Type: Informational
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 2011-11-09
Python-Version: 2.8


Abstract
========

This document describes the development and release schedule for Python 2.8.


Release Schedule
================

The current schedule is:

 - 2.8 final Never


Official pronouncement
======================

There will never be an official Python 2.8 release.


Upgrade path
============

The official upgrade path from Python 2.7 is to Python 3.


Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.



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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Benjamin Peterson-3
2011/11/9 Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>:

> I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and PEPs
> are as official as it gets 'round here.  Thus I propose the following.  If
> there are no objections <wink>, I'll commit this taking the next available
> number.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
> PEP: 405
> Title: Python 2.8 Release Schedule

I don't know why this PEP is necessary, but I think a more appropriate
title would be "2.x is in maintenance only mode".

> Version: $Revision$
> Last-Modified: $Date$
> Author: Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>
> Status: Final
> Type: Informational
> Content-Type: text/x-rst
> Created: 2011-11-09
> Python-Version: 2.8



--
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw
Hi,

2011/11/9 Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>
I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and PEPs
are as official as it gets 'round here.

Do we need to designate a release manager?

--
Amaury Forgeot d'Arc

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Ethan Furman-2
In reply to this post by Benjamin Peterson-3
Benjamin Peterson wrote:

> 2011/11/9 Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>:
>> I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and PEPs
>> are as official as it gets 'round here.  Thus I propose the following.  If
>> there are no objections <wink>, I'll commit this taking the next available
>> number.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Barry
>>
>> PEP: 405
>> Title: Python 2.8 Release Schedule
>
> I don't know why this PEP is necessary, but I think a more appropriate
> title would be "2.x is in maintenance only mode".

I think somebody searching will more easily find "Python 2.8 Release
Schedule" rather than "2.x is in maintenance only mode".

~Ethan~
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Victor STINNER
In reply to this post by Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
Le Mercredi 9 Novembre 2011 17:18:45 Amaury Forgeot d'Arc a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> 2011/11/9 Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>
>
> > I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and
> > PEPs are as official as it gets 'round here.
>
> Do we need to designate a release manager?

random.choice() should help in this case.

Victor
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Barry Warsaw
In reply to this post by Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
On Nov 09, 2011, at 05:18 PM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote:

>2011/11/9 Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>
>
>> I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and PEPs
>> are as official as it gets 'round here.
>>
>
>Do we need to designate a release manager?

I'd happily serve as the un-release manager. :)

-Barry

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Barry Warsaw
In reply to this post by Benjamin Peterson-3
On Nov 09, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:

>I don't know why this PEP is necessary, but I think a more appropriate
>title would be "2.x is in maintenance only mode".

Okay, it's a little tongue-in-cheek, but the practical reason is that I want
it to be the top hit when someone searches for "Python 2.8".

Cheers,
-Barry

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Terry Reedy
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw
On 11/9/2011 11:14 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8,

http://python.org/download/releases/2.7.2/ (and similar) already say:
The Python 2.7 series is scheduled to be the last major version in the
2.x series before 2.x moves into an extended maintenance period.

If Guido is ready to "pound the final nail in the coffin", delete
'scheduled to be', and change "series before 2.x moves into" to "series.
2.x is in", fine with me. I am not sure a PEP is also needed, but OK,
with revision.

> and PEPs are as official as it gets 'round here.
 > Thus I propose the following.  If there are no objections<wink>,

There are ;-). The title is misleading, and the whole thing reads like
an April Fools Joke. If I were looking for information, I would be
slightly annoyed.

> PEP: 405
> Title: Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Title: Python 2.8 Will Never Happen

tells anyone searching what they need to know immediately. They would
only need to click on a link if they wanted to know 'why'.

> Version: $Revision$
> Last-Modified: $Date$
> Author: Barry Warsaw<[hidden email]>

Guido should be the first author.

> Status: Final
> Type: Informational

So let us be informative from the title on.

> Content-Type: text/x-rst
> Created: 2011-11-09
> Python-Version: 2.8
>
> Abstract
> ========
>
> This document describes the development and release schedule for Python 2.8.

More non-informative teasing. Instead, I suggest replacing everything
with short, sweet, and informative.

Rationale
=========

For backward-compatibility reasons, the Python 2 series is burdened with
several obsolete and duplicate features that were removed in Python 3.
In addition, the primary character set was expanded from ascii to
unicode. While bug fixes continue for 2.7, new developments go into
Python 3.x versions.

--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

briancurtin
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:14, Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and PEPs
are as official as it gets 'round here.  Thus I propose the following.  If
there are no objections <wink>, I'll commit this taking the next available
number.

Cheers,
-Barry

PEP: 405
Title: Python 2.8 Release Schedule
Version: $Revision$
Last-Modified: $Date$
Author: Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>
Status: Final
Type: Informational
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 2011-11-09
Python-Version: 2.8


Abstract
========

This document describes the development and release schedule for Python 2.8.


Release Schedule
================

The current schedule is:

 - 2.8 final Never


Official pronouncement
======================

There will never be an official Python 2.8 release.


Upgrade path
============

The official upgrade path from Python 2.7 is to Python 3.


Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.



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 indent-tabs-mode: nil
 sentence-end-double-space: t
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+1. post it as-is. 

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Paul Moore
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:14, Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and
> PEPs
> are as official as it gets 'round here.  Thus I propose the following.  If
> there are no objections <wink>, I'll commit this taking the next available
> number.

+1 on having a PEP
+0 on posting it as it stands

I see why people feel that something more precise and/or formal would
get the message across better, but the mildly tongue-in-cheek tone
isn't really inappropriate for a language named after Monty Python :-)

+1 for Cardinal Biggles as release manager.

Paul
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

John O'Connor-4
> +1 for Cardinal Biggles as release manager.

+1
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Barry Warsaw
In reply to this post by Paul Moore
On Nov 09, 2011, at 08:58 PM, Paul Moore wrote:

>I see why people feel that something more precise and/or formal would
>get the message across better, but the mildly tongue-in-cheek tone
>isn't really inappropriate for a language named after Monty Python :-)

*Thank you* :)

>+1 for Cardinal Biggles as release manager.

Brilliant!

-Barry

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:55 AM, Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>+1 for Cardinal Biggles as release manager.

Now you need to persuade Vinay to let you trade PEP numbers with the
pyvenv PEP. Having an unrelease schedule as PEP 404 is too good an
opportunity to pass up :)

Getting boring for a moment, I suggest including the following new
section just before the copyright section:


And Now For Something Completely Different
=================================

Sorry, sorry, that's just being too silly. While the language may be
named after a British comedy troupe (and the overall tone of this PEP
reflects that), there are some serious reasons that explain why there
won't be an official 2.8 release from the CPython development team. If
a search for "Python 2.8" brought you to this document, you may not be
aware of the underlying problems in the design of Python 2.x that led
to the creation of the 3.x series.

First and foremost, Python 2.x is a language with ASCII text at its
core. The main text manipulation interfaces, the standard I/O stack
and many other elements of the standard library are built around that
assumption. While Unicode is supported, it's quite clearly an added on
feature rather than something that is fundamental to the language.
Python 3.x changes that core assumption, instead building the language
around Unicode text. This affects the builtin ``str`` type (which is
now Unicode text rather than 8-bit data), the standard I/O stack
(which now supports Unicode encoding concepts directly), what
identifier and module names are legal (with most Unicode alphanumeric
characters being supported) and several other aspects of the language.

With the text handling and associated I/O changes breaking backwards
compatibility *anyway*, Guido took the opportunity to finally
eliminate some other design defects in Python 2.x that had been
preserved solely for backwards compatibility reasons. These changes
include:

  - complete removal of support for "classic" (i.e. pre-2.2 style)
class semantics
  - the separate ``int`` (machine level integer) and ``long``
(arbitrarily large) integer types have been merged into a single
``int`` type (that supports arbitrarily large values)
  - integer division now promotes non-integer results to binary
floating values automatically
  - the error prone ``except Exception, exc:`` syntax has been removed
(in favour of the more explicit ``except Exception as exc:``)
  - ``print`` and ``exec`` are now ordinary functions rather than statements
  - the backtick based ```x``` alternate spelling of ``repr(x)`` has
been removed
  - the ``<>`` alternate spelling of ``!=`` has been removed
  - implicit relative imports have been removed
  - star imports (i.e. ``from x import *``) are now permitted only in
module level code
  - implicit ordering comparisons between objects of different types
have been removed
  - list comprehensions no longer leak their iteration variables into
the surrounding scope
  - many APIs that previously returned lists now return iterators or
lightweight views instead (e.g. ``map`` produces an iterator,
``range`` creates a virtual sequence, ``dict.keys`` a view of the
original dict)
  - iterator advancement is now via a protocal-based builtin
(``next()`` invoking ``__next__()``) rather than an ordinary method
call
  - some rarely needed builtins have been relocated to standard
library modules (``reduce`` is now ``functools.reduce``, ``reload`` is
now ``imp.reload``)
  - some areas of the standard library have been rearranged in an
attempt to make the naming schemes more intuitive

More details on the backwards incompatible changes relative to the 2.x
series can be found in the `Python 3.0 What's New`_ document.

With the 3.x Unicode based architecture providing a significantly
better foundation for a language with a global audience, all new
features will appear solely in the Python 3.x series. However, as
detailed elsewhere, the 2.7 release will still be supported with bug
fixes and maintenance releases for several years.

.. _`Python 3.0 What's New`: http://docs.python.org/py3k/whatsnew/3.0.html

--
Nick Coghlan   |   [hidden email]   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Barry Warsaw
On Nov 10, 2011, at 08:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

>Now you need to persuade Vinay to let you trade PEP numbers with the
>pyvenv PEP. Having an unrelease schedule as PEP 404 is too good an
>opportunity to pass up :)

Brilliant suggestion!  Vinay? :)

>Getting boring for a moment, I suggest including the following new
>section just before the copyright section:

You have a very good point.  I think I'd like a shorter 'serious' section
though.  Let me see what I can put together.

-Barry

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Gregory Ewing
In reply to this post by Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
On 10/11/11 05:18, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote:

> Do we need to designate a release manager?

I nominate John Cleese. Although he's undoubtedly a busy
man, this shouldn't take up too much of his time.

--
Greg
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Tim Delaney-2
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw
On 10 November 2011 11:05, Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Nov 10, 2011, at 08:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

>Now you need to persuade Vinay to let you trade PEP numbers with the
>pyvenv PEP. Having an unrelease schedule as PEP 404 is too good an
>opportunity to pass up :)

Brilliant suggestion!  Vinay? :)

410 Gone would be more appropriate IMO. But 404 does have more mindshare.

Tim Delaney 

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

anatoly techtonik
In reply to this post by Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:58 AM, Nick Coghlan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Getting boring for a moment, I suggest including the following new
> section just before the copyright section:

I'd also include a "roadmap" section with all 2.x wannabes that are
not going to be be released with 2.8. And a special epilogue chapter
listing all missing stdlib wannabes and fixes that were never
implemented, because they break backward 2.x compatibility.

--
anatoly t.
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Vinay Sajip
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw
Barry Warsaw <barry <at> python.org> writes:

>
> On Nov 10, 2011, at 08:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> >Now you need to persuade Vinay to let you trade PEP numbers with the
> >pyvenv PEP. Having an unrelease schedule as PEP 404 is too good an
> >opportunity to pass up :)
>
> Brilliant suggestion!  Vinay? :)
>

Actually you need Carl Meyer's agreement, not mine - he's the one writing the
PEP. But I'm in favour :-)

Regards,

Vinay Sajip

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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Carl Meyer-4
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Hash: SHA1



On 11/10/2011 07:17 AM, Vinay Sajip wrote:

> Barry Warsaw <barry <at> python.org> writes:
>> On Nov 10, 2011, at 08:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>> Now you need to persuade Vinay to let you trade PEP numbers with the
>>> pyvenv PEP. Having an unrelease schedule as PEP 404 is too good an
>>> opportunity to pass up :)
>>
>> Brilliant suggestion!  Vinay? :)
>>
>
> Actually you need Carl Meyer's agreement, not mine - he's the one writing the
> PEP. But I'm in favour :-)

No objection here.

Carl
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Re: PEP 405 (proposed): Python 2.8 Release Schedule

Lennart Regebro-2
In reply to this post by Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 17:18, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
> 2011/11/9 Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]>
>>
>> I think we should have an official pronouncement about Python 2.8, and
>> PEPs
>> are as official as it gets 'round here.
>
> Do we need to designate a release manager?

I volunteer. It's on my level of competence.

//Lennart
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