Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

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Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Georg Brandl-2
Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more contrast and
collapsible sidebar again:

http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/

I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you collapse
it and expand it again, the content is shown at your current scroll location).

Have fun!
Georg

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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Ben Finney-10
Georg Brandl <[hidden email]> writes:

> Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more
> contrast and collapsible sidebar again:
>
> http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/

Great! You've improved it nicely. I especially like that you have
<URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtrusive_JavaScript> done the
collapsible sidebar with graceful degradation: the content is quite
accessible without ECMAscript.

Can you make the link colors (in the body and sidebar) follow the usual
conventions: use a blue colour for unvisited links, and a purple colour
for visited links <URL:http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040510.html> so
it's more obvious where links are and where the reader has already been.

--
 \       “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them |
  `\    to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their |
_o__)                      own desires.” —Susan Brownell Anthony, 1896 |
Ben Finney

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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Eli Bendersky
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 08:34, Georg Brandl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more contrast and
> collapsible sidebar again:
>
> http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/
>
> I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you collapse
> it and expand it again, the content is shown at your current scroll location).
>

Nice and clean. +1

Eli
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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Glenn Linderman-3
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
On 3/24/2012 11:34 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you collapse
it and expand it again, the content is shown at your current scroll location).

It would be educational to see how you pulled that trick! I will look if I get time. However, in playing with it, it has the definite disadvantage of forcing the user to position/click the mouse twice, if the goal is not to collapse the sidebar, but simply to make the content visible.

Might there be an additional way to move the content, perhaps by a click in the blank portions of the sidebar (above the top or below the bottom of the content, in the shaded area), that it would bring the content to view?  The position chosen for the content could happily be the same position you choose when doing the collapse/expand dance, I have no quibble with that.

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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Peter Otten
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
Georg Brandl wrote:

> Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more contrast
> and collapsible sidebar again:
>
> http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/

Nice! Lightweight and readable.

>From the bikeshedding department:

* Inlined code doesn't need the gray background. The bold font makes it
stand out enough.
* Instead of the box consider italics or another color for [New in ...]
text.
* Nobody is going to switch off the prompts for interactive sessions.
* Maybe the Next/Previous Page headers on the left could link to the
respective page.
* Short descriptions in the module index don't need italics.
* The disambiguation in the index table could use a different style instead
of the parentheses.


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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Serhiy Storchaka-2
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
25.03.12 09:34, Georg Brandl написав(ла):
> Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more contrast and
> collapsible sidebar again:

It may be worth now the line-height reduce too?

> I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you collapse
> it and expand it again, the content is shown at your current scroll location).

What if move the search field to the header and the footer? There a lot
of free space. "Report a Bug" and "Show Source" can also be moved to the
footer, if fit. The footer height is too big now, I think that you can
reduce the copyright and technical information from 4 to 2 lines.

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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Serhiy Storchaka-2
In reply to this post by Peter Otten
25.03.12 11:06, Peter Otten написав(ла):
> * Inlined code doesn't need the gray background. The bold font makes it
> stand out enough.

I believe that the gray background is good, but it should make it lighter.

> * Instead of the box consider italics or another color for [New in ...]
> text.

Yes, the border around "New in" and "Changed in" looks not good-looking.
Maybe a very light colored background with no border or underlined
italic will look better.

> * Maybe the Next/Previous Page headers on the left could link to the
> respective page.

Do you mean next/previous links in header/footer?

I totally agree with your other comments, including the admiration of
the current version of the design.

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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Andrew Svetlov
I like to always see "Quick search" widget without scrolling page to
top. Is it possible?
Or maybe you can embed some keyboard shortcut for quick jump to search
input box?

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Serhiy Storchaka <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 25.03.12 11:06, Peter Otten написав(ла):
>
>> * Inlined code doesn't need the gray background. The bold font makes it
>> stand out enough.
>
>
> I believe that the gray background is good, but it should make it lighter.
>
>
>> * Instead of the box consider italics or another color for [New in ...]
>> text.
>
>
> Yes, the border around "New in" and "Changed in" looks not good-looking.
> Maybe a very light colored background with no border or underlined italic
> will look better.
>
>
>> * Maybe the Next/Previous Page headers on the left could link to the
>> respective page.
>
>
> Do you mean next/previous links in header/footer?
>
> I totally agree with your other comments, including the admiration of the
> current version of the design.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
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--
Thanks,
Andrew Svetlov
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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Stephen J. Turnbull
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
In the header next to "Python v3.3a1 documentation" there is a
"»" symbol, which suggests something can be expanded.  Knowing
that there are many versions of the documentation, I thought it
might bring up a menu of versions.  But clicking does nothing.  Is
that intentional?  I guess it's supposed to mean "go to top" but that
wasn't obvious to me.

I think the clickable areas in the header and footer should be
indicated with the usual coloring (either the scheme you currently
use, or perhaps as Ben suggests blue and purple as in "traditional"
HTML documents).  I agree that what you do looks nice and is
sufficiently functional once you realize it, but I've seen a lot of
research that indicates that up to 60% of users can't find all the
links on a page unless they're explicitly marked.  (In one focus
group 4 of 14 users never found a menu that took up 40% of
the area of the page!)

My first impression of the "questionable feature" that the
sidebar is aligned with the scroll position when expanded is
that it's useful.

It looks pretty good without CSS, too!

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Georg Brandl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more contrast and
> collapsible sidebar again:
>
> http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/
>
> I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you collapse
> it and expand it again, the content is shown at your current scroll location).
>
> Have fun!
> Georg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/stephen%40xemacs.org
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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Serhiy Storchaka-2
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
25.03.12 09:34, Georg Brandl написав(ла):
> I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you collapse
> it and expand it again, the content is shown at your current scroll location).

I'm not sure if this is possible, and how good it would look like, but I
have one crazy idea. What if transform the sidebar to collapsable
floating box in the upper right corner?

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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Stefan Krah-3
In reply to this post by Andrew Svetlov
Andrew Svetlov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I like to always see "Quick search" widget without scrolling page to
> top. Is it possible?

Do you mean a fixed search box like this one?

http://coq.inria.fr/documentation


Please don't do this, I find scrolling exceptionally distracting in the
presence of fixed elements.



Stefan Krah


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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Andrew Svetlov
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Stefan Krah <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Andrew Svetlov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I like to always see "Quick search" widget without scrolling page to
>> top. Is it possible?
>
> Do you mean a fixed search box like this one?
>
> http://coq.inria.fr/documentation
>
No. You are right, it's distracting. Maybe narrow persistent line with
searchbox on the top will be better.
But just jump to searchbox by shortcut is good enough for me also.

>
> Please don't do this, I find scrolling exceptionally distracting in the
> presence of fixed elements.
>
>
>
> Stefan Krah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/andrew.svetlov%40gmail.com



--
Thanks,
Andrew Svetlov
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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Hynek Schlawack-6
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
Hi Georg,

Am 25.03.2012 um 08:34 schrieb Georg Brandl:

> Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more contrast and
> collapsible sidebar again:
>
> http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/

I really like it!

Only one nitpick: If a header follows on a “seealso”, the vertical rhythm is slightly broken like in https://skitch.com/hyneks/8c6j8/

Minor detail but should be easy to fix. :)

Cheers,
Hynek
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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Peter Otten
In reply to this post by Serhiy Storchaka-2
Serhiy Storchaka wrote:

>> * Maybe the Next/Previous Page headers on the left could link to the
>> respective page.
>
> Do you mean next/previous links in header/footer?
 
No, I mean the two sections in the sidebar on the left, below "Table of
Contents".

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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Stephen J. Turnbull
In reply to this post by Stefan Krah-3
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Stefan Krah <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do you mean a fixed search box like this one?
>
> http://coq.inria.fr/documentation
>
> Please don't do this, I find scrolling exceptionally distracting in the
> presence of fixed elements.

Does it bother you when the header is fixed and contains
the search box?  I prefer that arrangement, anyway.
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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Oleg Broytman
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 08:34:44AM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
> http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/

   Perfect! I like it!

Oleg.
--
     Oleg Broytman            http://phdru.name/            [hidden email]
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Matt Joiner

Is nice yes?! When I small the nav bar, then embiggen it again, the text centers vertically. It's in the wrong place. The new theme is very minimal, perhaps a new color should be chosen. We've done green, what about orange, brown or blue?


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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Antoine Pitrou
In reply to this post by Georg Brandl-2
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:34:44 +0200
Georg Brandl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more contrast and
> collapsible sidebar again:
>
> http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/
>
> I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you collapse
> it and expand it again, the content is shown at your current scroll location).

The gimmick is buggy (when you collapse then expand it in the middle,
and then scroll up, the sidebar content disappears after scrolling),
and in the end quite confusing.

Also I think there should be some jquery animation when
collapsing/expanding.

I think the "New in version..." and "Changed in version..." styles
stand out in the wrong kind of way (as in "drawn by a 8-year old with
a pen and ruler", perhaps). Perhaps you want some coloured background
instead? (or, better, an icon - by the way, warnings also scream for an
icon IMO)

Otherwise, not sure what problem this new theme solves, but it looks ok.

Regards

Antoine.


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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Stefan Krah-3
In reply to this post by Stephen J. Turnbull
Stephen J. Turnbull <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Do you mean a fixed search box like this one?
> >
> > http://coq.inria.fr/documentation
> >
> > Please don't do this, I find scrolling exceptionally distracting in the
> > presence of fixed elements.
>
> Does it bother you when the header is fixed and contains
> the search box?  I prefer that arrangement, anyway.

Do you have an example website? In general fixed elements distract me
greatly. This also applies to the '<<' element in the collapsible
sidebar. When I'm scrolling, it's almost the center of my attention
(when I should be focusing on the text).

Perhaps users can discover the collapsible sidebar without the '<<' hint?
Or let it move up like in the existing version?


Stefan Krah


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Re: Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

Stephen J. Turnbull
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Stefan Krah <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Stephen J. Turnbull <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Does it bother you when the header is fixed and contains
>> the search box?  I prefer that arrangement, anyway.
>
> Do you have an example website?

Not with just a header.  http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Teach/IntroSES/
is a (very primitive and not stylistically improved in years) example
of a frame-based layout that I use some of my classes.  I would
put a search field in the top frame (if I had one. :-)  But I suppose you
would find the fixed sidebar distracting.

> In general fixed elements distract me
> greatly. This also applies to the '<<' element in the collapsible
> sidebar. When I'm scrolling, it's almost the center of my attention
> (when I should be focusing on the text).

I suspect you're unusual in that, but I guess it just is going
to bug you no matter what, and I personally don't have
*that* strong a preference either way.
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