Problem with the French keyboard on IDLE 3.2.2

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Problem with the French keyboard on IDLE 3.2.2

Jean-Paul Roy
Hi !
I am starting an undergraduate course on Python 3.2.2 and I would like to use the IDLE IDE on Mac Lion, as IDLE is actually cool for teaching. BUT I have problems with some dead keys, for example to get the tilde char, by the sequence "Alt-n <space>", the "Alt-n" moves the cursor on top of buffer instead of displaying the ~ char ! The french input method seems to be ignored which is strange in the Unicode times. I looked without success in the Preferences/Key menu. Same for french circumflex e (ê) impossible to get with the keyboard, etc.
IDLE is hardly usable with such behavior. It is strange that this bug seems to be known for months but no remedy comes from the Python community :-( I have not this problem with other IDE which are alas a bit too complex for beginners (we wish the same IDE for all OS).
The course (250 students) will start in sept. 2012.
Thanks,

  Jean-Paul
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Re: Problem with the French keyboard on IDLE 3.2.2

Terry Reedy
On 1/6/2012 1:46 AM, Jean-Paul Roy wrote:
> Hi ! I am starting an undergraduate course on Python 3.2.2 and I
> would like to use the IDLE IDE on Mac Lion, as IDLE is actually cool

Idle works least well on Macs

> for teaching. BUT I have problems with some dead keys, for example to
> get the tilde char, by the sequence "Alt-n<space>", the "Alt-n" moves
> the cursor on top of buffer instead of displaying the ~ char !

I am not sure what you mean by 'dead keys' or 'top of buffer'. I just
type the ~ key on my keyboard. On Windows and *nix, Alt-N is History:
Next. On Mac, History: Next is supposed to be Cntl-N (which on open new
window on Windows). On the IDLE Preferences dialog, Keys tab, there is a
button for Use a Built-in Key Set with 4 choices. Is one of the Mac sets
selected? What does CTRL-N do for you?

> french input method seems to be ignored which is strange in the
> Unicode times.

The transition is still in progress.

 > I looked without success in the Preferences/Key menu.
> Same for french circumflex e (ê) impossible to get with the keyboard,
> etc. IDLE is hardly usable with such behavior. It is strange that
> this bug seems to be known for months

Are you referring to an issue on the tracker? If so, which one?

> but no remedy comes from the Python community :-(

The 'community' consists of volunteers who work on issues they care
about. A solution is most likely to come from someone who uses French
keyboards, Idle, and the Mac. But if Idle does not work with a French
keyboard, that combination is unlikely.

Second best would be a French keyboard and Mac user who would like to
use IDLE and who would work with others to help make IDLE work better.

--
Terry Jan Reedy


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Re: Problem with the French keyboard on IDLE 3.2.2

Ned Deily
In reply to this post by Jean-Paul Roy
In article <[hidden email]>,
 Jean-Paul Roy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am starting an undergraduate course on Python 3.2.2 and I would like to use
> the IDLE IDE on Mac Lion, as IDLE is actually cool for teaching. BUT I have
> problems with some dead keys, for example to get the tilde char, by the
> sequence "Alt-n <space>", the "Alt-n" moves the cursor on top of buffer
> instead of displaying the ~ char ! The french input method seems to be
> ignored which is strange in the Unicode times. I looked without success in
> the Preferences/Key menu. Same for french circumflex e (ê) impossible to get
> with the keyboard, etc.
> IDLE is hardly usable with such behavior. It is strange that this bug seems
> to be known for months but no remedy comes from the Python community :-( I
> have not this problem with other IDE which are alas a bit too complex for
> beginners (we wish the same IDE for all OS).
> The course (250 students) will start in sept. 2012.

See the discussion here:

http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/703430

Unfortunately, the problem is due to lack of support of Mac OS X input
methods in the OS X versions of Tk.  It needs to be fixed there but, as
far as I know, it is not being worked on by anyone in the Tcl/Tk world.  
There is nothing that Python or IDLE can do to work around it.  Perhaps
you can add your support on the Tk bug tracker here:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=12997&atid=112997

--
 Ned Deily,
 [hidden email]

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Re: Problem with the French keyboard on IDLE 3.2.2

Kevin Walzer-5
On 1/28/12 10:38 AM, Ned Deily wrote:
> Unfortunately, the problem is due to lack of support of Mac OS X input
> methods in the OS X versions of Tk.  It needs to be fixed there but, as
> far as I know, it is not being worked on by anyone in the Tcl/Tk world.

It is being worked on; I'm currently reviewing an updated patch to
address the problem. When I commit the patch, it will go into both Tk's
trunk and in the Cocoa 8.5 backport, and eventually be available through
ActiveState's distribution.

--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
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Re: Problem with the French keyboard on IDLE 3.2.2

Terry Reedy
On 1/28/2012 2:06 PM, Kevin Walzer wrote:
> On 1/28/12 10:38 AM, Ned Deily wrote:
>> Unfortunately, the problem is due to lack of support of Mac OS X input
>> methods in the OS X versions of Tk. It needs to be fixed there but, as
>> far as I know, it is not being worked on by anyone in the Tcl/Tk world.
>
> It is being worked on; I'm currently reviewing an updated patch to
> address the problem. When I commit the patch, it will go into both Tk's
> trunk and in the Cocoa 8.5 backport, and eventually be available through
> ActiveState's distribution.

On python-list, where someone brought up the same issue,
Kevin added today
 > And it's been committed:
 >
 > http://core.tcl.tk/tk/info/9844fe10b9

--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: Problem with the French keyboard on IDLE 3.2.2

Ned Deily
In reply to this post by Kevin Walzer-5
In article <[hidden email]>,
 Kevin Walzer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 1/28/12 10:38 AM, Ned Deily wrote:
> > Unfortunately, the problem is due to lack of support of Mac OS X input
> > methods in the OS X versions of Tk.  It needs to be fixed there but, as
> > far as I know, it is not being worked on by anyone in the Tcl/Tk world.
>
> It is being worked on; I'm currently reviewing an updated patch to
> address the problem. When I commit the patch, it will go into both Tk's
> trunk and in the Cocoa 8.5 backport, and eventually be available through
> ActiveState's distribution.

Update: The fix has now been released in the latest ActiveState Tcl 8.5
for Mac OS X release (8.5.11.1) available here:

    http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads

It appears to fix the French keyboard tilde problem and other similar
problems with composite characters, like Option-U + vowel to form
"umlauted" vowels in the U.S. input method.  Many thanks to Adrian
Robert, Kevin Walzer, and the ActiveState team for addressing this nasty
problem.

If you install ActiveState Tcl 8.5.x, it will automatically be used by
the python.org 2.7.x, 3.2.x, and 3.3.x 64-bit/32-bit Pythons for OS X
10.6 and 10.7.  It will *not* be used by the Apple-supplied system
Pythons or by 32-bit-only python.org Pythons.   More details here:

    http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/

--
 Ned Deily,
 [hidden email]

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Re: Problem with the French keyboard on IDLE 3.2.2

Terry Reedy
On 3/4/2012 9:46 PM, Ned Deily wrote:

> Pythons or by 32-bit-only python.org Pythons.   More details here:
>
>      http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/

I see the link for that in the footnote at the bottom of

http://www.python.org/download/

but nowhere on the more easily found

http://www.python.org/download/mac/

Perhaps is could be added there also.

--
Terry Jan Reedy

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