Python Web App

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Python Web App

Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
success with them.
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Re: Python Web App

hidura
I am creating one, is on test, what kind of app do you want create?

2010/12/22, Sean <[hidden email]>:
> Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
> form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
> few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
> python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
> success with them.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

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Re: Python Web App

Tim Harig-2
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
On 2010-12-22, Sean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
> form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
> few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
> python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
> success with them.

Personally, I think a web app based IDE would be ghastly; but, you might
have a look at Mozilla Skywriter (formerly Bespin):

https://mozillalabs.com/skywriter/
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Re: Python Web App

hidura
Why grashtly?

2010/12/22, Tim Harig <[hidden email]>:

> On 2010-12-22, Sean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
>> form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
>> few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
>> python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
>> success with them.
>
> Personally, I think a web app based IDE would be ghastly; but, you might
> have a look at Mozilla Skywriter (formerly Bespin):
>
> https://mozillalabs.com/skywriter/
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

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Re: Python Web App

Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
I am wanting to learn python and I am test a Chrome OS notebook at the
same time so I need something that will atleast tell me if I have any
syntax errors. Although the more features the better that way learning
is an easier experience.

On Dec 22, 7:05 pm, Hidura <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am creating one, is on test, what kind of app do you want create?
>
> 2010/12/22, Sean <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
> > form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
> > few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
> > python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
> > success with them.
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> Enviado desde mi dispositivo móvil
>
> Diego I. Hidalgo D.

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Re: Python Web App

Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
Forgot to point out that Chrome OS has no local storage accessable to
the user. Hence why I need a web based solution.

On Dec 22, 8:51 pm, Sean <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am wanting to learn python and I am test a Chrome OS notebook at the
> same time so I need something that will atleast tell me if I have any
> syntax errors. Although the more features the better that way learning
> is an easier experience.
>
> On Dec 22, 7:05 pm, Hidura <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am creating one, is on test, what kind of app do you want create?
>
> > 2010/12/22, Sean <[hidden email]>:
>
> > > Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
> > > form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
> > > few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
> > > python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
> > > success with them.
> > > --
> > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> > --
> > Enviado desde mi dispositivo móvil
>
> > Diego I. Hidalgo D.

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Re: Python Web App

hidura
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
Use editarea, that's the best option if you want something small, but
as i said before i am developing a framework that allows you to create
app's from the web and is much more complete than editarea.

2010/12/22, Sean <[hidden email]>:

> I am wanting to learn python and I am test a Chrome OS notebook at the
> same time so I need something that will atleast tell me if I have any
> syntax errors. Although the more features the better that way learning
> is an easier experience.
>
> On Dec 22, 7:05 pm, Hidura <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I am creating one, is on test, what kind of app do you want create?
>>
>> 2010/12/22, Sean <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> > Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
>> > form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
>> > few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
>> > python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
>> > success with them.
>> > --
>> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>> --
>> Enviado desde mi dispositivo móvil
>>
>> Diego I. Hidalgo D.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

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Re: Python Web App

hidura
My framework let you store online on a hosting server that the same
framework provide.

2010/12/22, Hidura <[hidden email]>:

> Use editarea, that's the best option if you want something small, but
> as i said before i am developing a framework that allows you to create
> app's from the web and is much more complete than editarea.
>
> 2010/12/22, Sean <[hidden email]>:
>> I am wanting to learn python and I am test a Chrome OS notebook at the
>> same time so I need something that will atleast tell me if I have any
>> syntax errors. Although the more features the better that way learning
>> is an easier experience.
>>
>> On Dec 22, 7:05 pm, Hidura <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I am creating one, is on test, what kind of app do you want create?
>>>
>>> 2010/12/22, Sean <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> > Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
>>> > form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
>>> > few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
>>> > python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
>>> > success with them.
>>> > --
>>> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>> --
>>> Enviado desde mi dispositivo móvil
>>>
>>> Diego I. Hidalgo D.
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
> --
> Enviado desde mi dispositivo móvil
>
> Diego I. Hidalgo D.
>

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Re: Python Web App

Tim Harig-2
In reply to this post by Tim Harig-2
[Reordered to preserve context in bottom posting]
On 2010-12-23, Hidura <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2010/12/22, Tim Harig <[hidden email]>:
>> On 2010-12-22, Sean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
>>> form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
>>> few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
>>> python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
>>> success with them.
>>
>> Personally, I think a web app based IDE would be ghastly; but, you might
>> have a look at Mozilla Skywriter (formerly Bespin):
>
> Why grashtly?

I don't personally think the web makes a good framework for highly
interactive applications as they must work within the constraints of the
browser and IDEs are highly interactive applications by their very nature.
Perhaps HTML5/CSS3 will change things; but, standard DOM manipulation,
as I am accustomed to seeing it, cannot generate the kind of rendering
that is available from native applications.  Attempts to do so end up being
kludgy.

It also cannot handle the kinds of desktop integrations that are common
for native applications without opening up serious security trust issues.
(Can everybody say ActiveX fiasco?)

Finally, there are difficulties in handling keystrokes without conflicting
with the browser's native key bindings.  I seldom ever touch a mouse
and I am a huge fan of vi, mutt, slrn, screen, ratpoison, etc. where
the primary interface is totally accessable through the keyboard without
having to tab through many options.
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Re: Python Web App

hidura
Ok, but you are comparing a web-based framework with a native-based
framework that use the components of the system to make all the things
that need, a web-based framewok use the resourses of the browser to
make it all, so the developer that use a framework on the web can't
expect get the same results, in my case i beleive that a web-based
framework adjust better to the needs if you'll make a web-app,
otherwise use eclipse or netbeans.

2010/12/22, Tim Harig <[hidden email]>:

> [Reordered to preserve context in bottom posting]
> On 2010-12-23, Hidura <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 2010/12/22, Tim Harig <[hidden email]>:
>>> On 2010-12-22, Sean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
>>>> form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
>>>> few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
>>>> python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
>>>> success with them.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think a web app based IDE would be ghastly; but, you might
>>> have a look at Mozilla Skywriter (formerly Bespin):
>>
>> Why grashtly?
>
> I don't personally think the web makes a good framework for highly
> interactive applications as they must work within the constraints of the
> browser and IDEs are highly interactive applications by their very nature.
> Perhaps HTML5/CSS3 will change things; but, standard DOM manipulation,
> as I am accustomed to seeing it, cannot generate the kind of rendering
> that is available from native applications.  Attempts to do so end up being
> kludgy.
>
> It also cannot handle the kinds of desktop integrations that are common
> for native applications without opening up serious security trust issues.
> (Can everybody say ActiveX fiasco?)
>
> Finally, there are difficulties in handling keystrokes without conflicting
> with the browser's native key bindings.  I seldom ever touch a mouse
> and I am a huge fan of vi, mutt, slrn, screen, ratpoison, etc. where
> the primary interface is totally accessable through the keyboard without
> having to tab through many options.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

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Re: Python Web App

Tim Harig-2
In reply to this post by Tim Harig-2
On 2010-12-23, Hidura <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ok, but you are comparing a web-based framework with a native-based
> framework that use the components of the system to make all the things
> that need, a web-based framewok use the resourses of the browser to

Right.  That is exactly what I am comparing.

> make it all, so the developer that use a framework on the web can't
> expect get the same results, in my case i beleive that a web-based

Which is exactly the problem with web apps that are highly interactive.  My
suggestion, is not to develope a web based IDE or use one.  It just isn't
something that the web was designed to do well.

> expect get the same results, in my case i beleive that a web-based
> framework adjust better to the needs if you'll make a web-app,

Most IDEs that are targeted at web developement have a built in web browser
or strong integration with one to run the web app as you are developing it.
I don't see any advantage or the necessity of actually running the IDE code
itself in the browser.

> otherwise use eclipse or netbeans.

I would; but then, I wouldn't purchase an operating system that is entirely
based on a web browser.
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Re: Re: Python Web App

hidura
> Which is exactly the problem with web apps that are highly interactive. My
> suggestion, is not to develope a web based IDE or use one. It just isn't
> something that the web was designed to do well.

Is not a problem of the IDE, the problem is on what the developer expect
as i said i you want something to the desktop well use an IDE that creates
apps for desktop, but if you need something for the web you can try on a
web-based IDE.

> Most IDEs that are targeted at web developement have a built in web browser
> or strong integration with one to run the web app as you are developing it.
> I don't see any advantage or the necessity of actually running the IDE code
> itself in the browser.

That's the problem an integration with one, my IDE works on all of them and
the result is the same in IE and Chrome or FF, a web page cannot be designed
to one browser it has to be designed to all the browser and have to be same. On
the visualization is more difficult but nobody could control perfectly that but on
the results of the data is has to be the same.

> I would; but then, I wouldn't purchase an operating system that is entirely
> based on a web browser.

I support that, but the target of those OS are use the share resources of the pc,
smartphone, etc and the server.


On Dec 22, 2010 11:54pm, Tim Harig <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2010-12-23, Hidura [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Ok, but you are comparing a web-based framework with a native-based
>
> > framework that use the components of the system to make all the things
>
> > that need, a web-based framewok use the resourses of the browser to
>
>
>
> Right.  That is exactly what I am comparing.
>
>
>
> > make it all, so the developer that use a framework on the web can't
>
> > expect get the same results, in my case i beleive that a web-based
>
>
>
> Which is exactly the problem with web apps that are highly interactive.  My
>
> suggestion, is not to develope a web based IDE or use one.  It just isn't
>
> something that the web was designed to do well.
>
>
>
> > expect get the same results, in my case i beleive that a web-based
>
> > framework adjust better to the needs if you'll make a web-app,
>
>
>
> Most IDEs that are targeted at web developement have a built in web browser
>
> or strong integration with one to run the web app as you are developing it.
>
> I don't see any advantage or the necessity of actually running the IDE code
>
> itself in the browser.
>
>
>
> > otherwise use eclipse or netbeans.
>
>
>
> I would; but then, I wouldn't purchase an operating system that is entirely
>
> based on a web browser.
>
> --
>
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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Re: Python Web App

fetchinson .
In reply to this post by Tim Harig-2
>>>> Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
>>>> form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
>>>> few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
>>>> python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
>>>> success with them.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think a web app based IDE would be ghastly; but, you might
>>> have a look at Mozilla Skywriter (formerly Bespin):
>>
>> Why grashtly?
>
> I don't personally think the web makes a good framework for highly
> interactive applications as they must work within the constraints of the
> browser and IDEs are highly interactive applications by their very nature.
> Perhaps HTML5/CSS3 will change things; but, standard DOM manipulation,
> as I am accustomed to seeing it, cannot generate the kind of rendering
> that is available from native applications.  Attempts to do so end up being
> kludgy.
>
> It also cannot handle the kinds of desktop integrations that are common
> for native applications without opening up serious security trust issues.
> (Can everybody say ActiveX fiasco?)

So, in essence, you are predicting that google's chrome OS will be a
failure, right?

> Finally, there are difficulties in handling keystrokes without conflicting
> with the browser's native key bindings.  I seldom ever touch a mouse
> and I am a huge fan of vi, mutt, slrn, screen, ratpoison, etc. where
> the primary interface is totally accessable through the keyboard without
> having to tab through many options.

Well, implementing vi or other text based tools in the browser is
trivial. I mean it will function in exactly the same way as a native
vi.

Cheers,
Daniel


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Re: Python Web App

Octavian Rasnita-2
From: "Daniel Fetchinson" <[hidden email]>

>>>>> Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
>>>>> form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
>>>>> few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
>>>>> python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
>>>>> success with them.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I think a web app based IDE would be ghastly; but, you might
>>>> have a look at Mozilla Skywriter (formerly Bespin):
>>>
>>> Why grashtly?
>>
>> I don't personally think the web makes a good framework for highly
>> interactive applications as they must work within the constraints of the
>> browser and IDEs are highly interactive applications by their very nature.
>> Perhaps HTML5/CSS3 will change things; but, standard DOM manipulation,
>> as I am accustomed to seeing it, cannot generate the kind of rendering
>> that is available from native applications.  Attempts to do so end up being
>> kludgy.
>>
>> It also cannot handle the kinds of desktop integrations that are common
>> for native applications without opening up serious security trust issues.
>> (Can everybody say ActiveX fiasco?)
>
> So, in essence, you are predicting that google's chrome OS will be a
> failure, right?


It will surely be. But it won't, because Google's monopoly in an important field will help it to promote that OS, not because that OS will be so great.

>> Finally, there are difficulties in handling keystrokes without conflicting
>> with the browser's native key bindings.  I seldom ever touch a mouse
>> and I am a huge fan of vi, mutt, slrn, screen, ratpoison, etc. where
>> the primary interface is totally accessable through the keyboard without
>> having to tab through many options.
>
> Well, implementing vi or other text based tools in the browser is
> trivial. I mean it will function in exactly the same way as a native
> vi.


Not exactly. Because not all the computer users can see, and the browsers don't offer the same accessibility features for screen readers as the standard GUIS.
(And Google's software is very poor in this field anyway.)

Octavian

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Re: Python Web App

Tim Harig-2
In reply to this post by Tim Harig-2
On 2010-12-23, Daniel Fetchinson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> I don't personally think the web makes a good framework for highly
>> interactive applications as they must work within the constraints of the
>> browser and IDEs are highly interactive applications by their very nature.
>> Perhaps HTML5/CSS3 will change things; but, standard DOM manipulation,
>> as I am accustomed to seeing it, cannot generate the kind of rendering
>> that is available from native applications.  Attempts to do so end up being
>> kludgy.
>>
>> It also cannot handle the kinds of desktop integrations that are common
>> for native applications without opening up serious security trust issues.
>> (Can everybody say ActiveX fiasco?)
>
> So, in essence, you are predicting that google's chrome OS will be a
> failure, right?

No, most people are happy using web based email interfaces and never even
know that native email clients exist.  More is the pity.

>> Finally, there are difficulties in handling keystrokes without conflicting
>> with the browser's native key bindings.  I seldom ever touch a mouse
>> and I am a huge fan of vi, mutt, slrn, screen, ratpoison, etc. where
>> the primary interface is totally accessable through the keyboard without
>> having to tab through many options.
>
> Well, implementing vi or other text based tools in the browser is
> trivial. I mean it will function in exactly the same way as a native
> vi.

Not exactly.  I occassionally use web based terminals (Ajaxterm, Anyterm,
Shellinabox, etc) to access my systems.  This works only partially since
many of the keystrokes I use conflict with keystrokes that the browser
uses or which cause signals that the browser either does not catch or does
not pass on to be accessed by client side scripting.  The terminals must
therefore place buttons or synthetic keyboards on the screen to allow
you to simulate the keystrokes.  That kind of negates the advantages of
keystrokes in the first place.  It doesn't make fore a pleasant experience.
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Re: Python Web App

Katie T
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Sean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
> form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
> few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
> python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
> success with them.

Your best bet is probably just to SSH to a *nix box and use something
like vim or emacs. None of the web solutions are anywhere near acceptable.

Katie
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Re: Python Web App

Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from secris1@gmail.com
@Katie
Thank you I considered this option until I realized it wouldn't let me
do anything other than ping from the command line.

The rest of you all make valid points after doing a little more
research on my own I found some really nice web based text editors but
they didn't have any testing abilities which meant learning in that
environment wasn't feasible in my opinion. I am inclined to agree that
chrome OS will probably not do as well as they want it to but with the
kind of capital Google has they could easily flood the market. In the
end I wound up giving the notebook to my mom because all she really
does is check her email and Facebook so it was perfect for her.

Thank You for all the responses they were a great help with me testing
the notebook.

On Dec 25, 9:02 pm, Katie T <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Sean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Anybody know where I can find a Python Development Environment in the
> > form of a web app for use with Chrome OS. I have been looking for a
> > few days and all i have been able to find is some old discussions with
> > python developers talking about they will want one for the OS to be a
> > success with them.
>
> Your best bet is probably just to SSH to a *nix box and use something
> like vim or emacs. None of the web solutions are anywhere near acceptable.
>
> Katie
> --
> CoderStackhttp://www.coderstack.co.uk/python-jobs
> The Software Developer Job Board

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