Re: IDLE Tiled

[Patrick Gallot]

Hello,
Below are some screen shots of IDLE using different ttk themes (on windows XP).

Attached is a version 2.7 of IDLE modified to use ttk (Tiled TK) now included with Python 2.7.

In doing this conversion, I made heavy use of the documentation from http://www.tkdocs.com/

A few caveats:
- I know of one bug where a blank Toplevel window pops-up when opening a new window, I'm not entirely sure why.
- dynOptionMenuWidget.py and tabbedpages.py are no longer used. TreeWidget now uses ttk's Treeview.
- To assist in debugging, I have it use a random ttk theme.








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[Terry Reedy]

On 9/25/2010 1:47 AM, Patrick Gallot wrote:
>   Hello,
> Below are some screen shots of IDLE using different ttk themes (on
> windows XP).
>
> Attached is a version 2.7 of IDLE modified to use ttk (Tiled TK) now
> included with Python 2.7.

A mailing list is where code goes to die ;-). If you are proposing a
patch (for 3.2+), search the tracker for an open issue on the subject
IDLE + tile (I believe there is one, with an existing patch) and upload
a diff against the IDLE in the py3k branch (or that distributed with the
latest 3.2alpha) an an alternative patch. If there is no such issue,
open one.

If you are proposing an alternate version for public use, start a
project on PyPI and upload it there, and upload subsequent versions as
you improve it.

The IDLE version distributed with 2.7 will only get bug fixes, if that.
The IDLE distributed with 3.2 could be upgraded. The main issue is that
some Linux distribution have not upgraded tdl/tk from 8.4 to 8.5 (with
ttk). The question then is whether it is OK for IDLE require either 8.5
(with ttk) or separate upload of the tile extension. My opinion is yes.
But I am dubious that this will happen before 3.2 goes in beta phase
(bugfix patches only).

--
Terry Jan Reedy

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[Tal Einat]

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Terry Reedy <[hidden email]> wrote:

The IDLE version distributed with 2.7 will only get bug fixes, if that. The IDLE distributed with 3.2 could be upgraded. The main issue is that some Linux distribution have not upgraded tdl/tk from 8.4 to 8.5 (with ttk). The question then is whether it is OK for IDLE require either 8.5 (with ttk) or separate upload of the tile extension. My opinion is yes. But I am dubious that this will happen before 3.2 goes in beta phase (bugfix patches only).

Perhaps we should aim for Python 3.3 and push for that version to require version 8.5 of tcl/tk? Has requiring version 8.5 been discussed already (perhaps on Python-dev)?

- Tal

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[Ronald Oussoren]

On 04 Oct, 2010,at 03:32 PM, Tal Einat <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Terry Reedy <[hidden email]> wrote:

The IDLE version distributed with 2.7 will only get bug fixes, if that. The IDLE distributed with 3.2 could be upgraded. The main issue is that some Linux distribution have not upgraded tdl/tk from 8.4 to 8.5 (with ttk). The question then is whether it is OK for IDLE require either 8.5 (with ttk) or separate upload of the tile extension. My opinion is yes. But I am dubious that this will happen before 3.2 goes in beta phase (bugfix patches only).

Perhaps we should aim for Python 3.3 and push for that version to require version 8.5 of tcl/tk? Has requiring version 8.5 been discussed already (perhaps on Python-dev)?

 

There is another issue w.r.t. requiring Tk 8.5: OSX 10.5 and earlier ship with Tcl/Tk 8.4, Tk 8.5 support is only included in OSX 10.6.

The binary installers for OSX do not include a copy of Tk to keep the size down, these installers too large enough as it is.  I don't know if it is possible to use ttk with Tcl/Tk 8.4, if it is I wouldn't mind shipping ttk as part of the binary installers on OSX. 

Ronald

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[Tal Einat]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Ronald Oussoren <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 04 Oct, 2010,at 03:32 PM, Tal Einat <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Terry Reedy <[hidden email]> wrote:

The IDLE version distributed with 2.7 will only get bug fixes, if that. The IDLE distributed with 3.2 could be upgraded. The main issue is that some Linux distribution have not upgraded tdl/tk from 8.4 to 8.5 (with ttk). The question then is whether it is OK for IDLE require either 8.5 (with ttk) or separate upload of the tile extension. My opinion is yes. But I am dubious that this will happen before 3.2 goes in beta phase (bugfix patches only).

Perhaps we should aim for Python 3.3 and push for that version to require version 8.5 of tcl/tk? Has requiring version 8.5 been discussed already (perhaps on Python-dev)?

 

There is another issue w.r.t. requiring Tk 8.5: OSX 10.5 and earlier ship with Tcl/Tk 8.4, Tk 8.5 support is only included in OSX 10.6.

The binary installers for OSX do not include a copy of Tk to keep the size down, these installers too large enough as it is.  I don't know if it is possible to use ttk with Tcl/Tk 8.4, if it is I wouldn't mind shipping ttk as part of the binary installers on OSX. 

Ronald

+1 that the OSX binary should include tcl/tk 8.5 so that Tkinter and IDLE can work out of the box, regardless of what is otherwise installed. That's how it works on Windows and I can't think of a reason for this to be different on OSX. I'm pretty sure have things just work trumps making the binary installer smaller.

Anyone who wants to install Python otherwise (e.g. compile from source or use aptitude/macports/etc.) will have deal with dependencies, and Python should require tcl/tk 8.5 from 3.3 onwards. This dependency should be stated explicitly where appropriate.

- Tal

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[Terry Reedy]

On 10/4/2010 3:18 PM, Tal Einat wrote:

> +1 that the OSX binary should include tcl/tk 8.5 so that Tkinter and
> IDLE can work out of the box, regardless of what is otherwise installed.
> That's how it works on Windows and I can't think of a reason for this to
> be different on OSX. I'm pretty sure have things just work trumps making
> the binary installer smaller.
>
> Anyone who wants to install Python otherwise (e.g. compile from source
> or use aptitude/macports/etc.) will have deal with dependencies, and
> Python should require tcl/tk 8.5 from 3.3 onwards. This dependency
> should be stated explicitly where appropriate.

While I would be happy if someone else polished up IDLE in the next
couple of months, during the 3.2alpha (new feature) period, I will not
be able contribute much at present. So I am personally targeting 3.3 for
anything that I substantially help with. One of the first things I would
like to do is review the bug reports and feature requests and develop
here an overall plan. I anticipate that part of such a plan would be
using the themed widgets. They are part of the stdlib and I do not think
we should be prohibited from using stdlib modules just because some
distributors fail to enable them. Such a plan could also include
instructions on how to install tile with tcl/tk 8.4 if it seems that
that would still be needed when 3.3 comes out.

The ttk use issue was discussed as part of the IDLE future discussion of
a couple of months ago (that Tal initiated). I think most comments on
pydev were in neutral to favorable, though there was no definitive
decision or conclusion. Given agreement here and a plan, I would be
willing to announce such on pydev.

--
Terry Jan Reedy

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