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[Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

DickM
Sorry about the OT, but I'm really nervous about the possibility of
screwing up my laptop by upgrading the OS from Vista to 7, and can't
think of a better place than Tutors to ask for advice.

I bought this Toshiba Satellite last October. It came with the right
to receive the upgrade CD for Windows 7 when it became available. I
think I finally got the disk in February, but by that time I'd gotten
used to Vista, and Vista was then, as now, in SP2 (64-bit). By that
time a generally computer-savvy friend (but who runs linux) was
telling me to not do the upgrade because I'd end up with problems with
7 and also with a lot of the software I had already installed.

Then recently I've talked to a couple of guys (separately) in 2 Office
Depots near Seattle who both told me that the Vista -> 7 upgrade
should go without any trouble at all. That I should do the upgrade,
then immediately download and install all the updates for 7 that MS
has issued. Both used used to do such upgrades for customers for a fee
($40), but not anymore. So they didn't have anything to sell me -- I
think they were being honest about their experience.

Has anyone here done the upgrade I'm considering, or know of anyone
who has? Any advice or anecdotes for me?

Thanks,

Dick Moores
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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Shashwat Anand
I am not a window user myself but all my friends who upgraded are quite happy about it. AFAIK Vista was a failure but 7 is good, so it is worth upgrading.

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Richard D. Moores <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry about the OT, but I'm really nervous about the possibility of
screwing up my laptop by upgrading the OS from Vista to 7, and can't
think of a better place than Tutors to ask for advice.

I bought this Toshiba Satellite last October. It came with the right
to receive the upgrade CD for Windows 7 when it became available. I
think I finally got the disk in February, but by that time I'd gotten
used to Vista, and Vista was then, as now, in SP2 (64-bit). By that
time a generally computer-savvy friend (but who runs linux) was
telling me to not do the upgrade because I'd end up with problems with
7 and also with a lot of the software I had already installed.

Then recently I've talked to a couple of guys (separately) in 2 Office
Depots near Seattle who both told me that the Vista -> 7 upgrade
should go without any trouble at all. That I should do the upgrade,
then immediately download and install all the updates for 7 that MS
has issued. Both used used to do such upgrades for customers for a fee
($40), but not anymore. So they didn't have anything to sell me -- I
think they were being honest about their experience.

Has anyone here done the upgrade I'm considering, or know of anyone
who has? Any advice or anecdotes for me?

Thanks,

Dick Moores
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Re: [Tutor] need computer advice from wise Tutors

Alan Gauld
In reply to this post by DickM
"Richard D. Moores" <[hidden email]> wrote

> Sorry about the OT, but I'm really nervous about the possibility of
> screwing up my laptop by upgrading the OS from Vista to 7, and can't
> think of a better place than Tutors to ask for advice.

Going from Vista to Windows 7 is a relatively painless
process - unlike going from XP to 7. (Microsoft have scored a
huge own goal with missing out this upgrade path IMHO!)

And 7 is a vast improvement over Vista, which is appallingly
bad, again IMHO!

However, to quote the old adage - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
So what is the problem that you think the upgrade will fix?

Alan G.
Still on XP because nothing is broke...



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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Steven D'Aprano-8
In reply to this post by DickM
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 05:00:16 pm Richard D. Moores wrote:
> Sorry about the OT, but I'm really nervous about the possibility of
> screwing up my laptop by upgrading the OS from Vista to 7, and can't
> think of a better place than Tutors to ask for advice.

Because of course knowing Python makes you an expert on Windows :)


[...]
> Then recently I've talked to a couple of guys (separately) in 2
> Office Depots near Seattle who both told me that the Vista -> 7
> upgrade should go without any trouble at all. That I should do the
> upgrade, then immediately download and install all the updates for 7
> that MS has issued. Both used used to do such upgrades for customers
> for a fee ($40), but not anymore.

Why did they stop? Could it be because the upgrade is sometimes
difficult and requires huge amount of manual effort to get it working,
far more than $40 will cover?

Cynical? Who, me?


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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

DickM
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 03:10, Steven D'Aprano <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 05:00:16 pm Richard D. Moores wrote:
>> Sorry about the OT, but I'm really nervous about the possibility of
>> screwing up my laptop by upgrading the OS from Vista to 7, and can't
>> think of a better place than Tutors to ask for advice.
>
> Because of course knowing Python makes you an expert on Windows :)
>
>
> [...]
>> Then recently I've talked to a couple of guys (separately) in 2
>> Office Depots near Seattle who both told me that the Vista -> 7
>> upgrade should go without any trouble at all. That I should do the
>> upgrade, then immediately download and install all the updates for 7
>> that MS has issued. Both used used to do such upgrades for customers
>> for a fee ($40), but not anymore.
>
> Why did they stop? Could it be because the upgrade is sometimes
> difficult and requires huge amount of manual effort to get it working,
> far more than $40 will cover?

Do you know that it does? Please tell me what you know.

>
> Cynical? Who, me?
>
>
> --
> Steven D'Aprano
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  [hidden email]
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>
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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Steven D'Aprano-8
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 08:53:57 pm you wrote:
> > Why did they stop? Could it be because the upgrade is sometimes
> > difficult and requires huge amount of manual effort to get it
> > working, far more than $40 will cover?
>
> Do you know that it does? Please tell me what you know.

I have no idea. That's why I asked:

> > Cynical? Who, me?



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Re: [Tutor] need computer advice from wise Tutors

Wayne Werner
In reply to this post by Alan Gauld
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Alan Gauld <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Richard D. Moores" <[hidden email]> wrote

However, to quote the old adage - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
So what is the problem that you think the upgrade will fix?

The problem? He has Vista installed... (rimshot) ;)

-Wayne,
Also on XP (and Ubuntu...)

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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
In reply to this post by Steven D'Aprano-8
Richard, I think you may go ahead without trepidation. I am not a Windows fan at all, I prefer Ubuntu. But I started using Win. 7 at work about a month ago, and I have to say it hasn't given me cause to grumble.

Of course, a month is hardly sufficient time to have a strong opinion, but I can tell you that it works just fine.

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Steven D'Aprano <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 08:53:57 pm you wrote:
> > Why did they stop? Could it be because the upgrade is sometimes
> > difficult and requires huge amount of manual effort to get it
> > working, far more than $40 will cover?
>
> Do you know that it does? Please tell me what you know.

I have no idea. That's why I asked:

> > Cynical? Who, me?



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Regards,
Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
http://www.lloyddube.com

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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

DickM
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 11:55, Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Richard, I think you may go ahead without trepidation. I am not a Windows
> fan at all, I prefer Ubuntu. But I started using Win. 7 at work about a
> month ago, and I have to say it hasn't given me cause to grumble.
>
> Of course, a month is hardly sufficient time to have a strong opinion, but I
> can tell you that it works just fine.

Thanks, but I'm not worried about Win 7 working well when perfectly
installed. I'm concerned that if I upgrade to 7 from Vista using the
upgrade disk I have, that THAT 7 on my laptop will end up with
problems caused by the install.

Dick
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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
Hi Dick,

In that case, perhaps you could externally back up all your important stuff and then format your hard disk. That way, any drivers etc intended for Windows Vista will be wiped off, and you can then perform a clean installation from your disk. Now, as far as upgrade disks go, I do not know whether it will work as a "clean installation" disk, or whether it is only meant for use on an existing windows installation (hence the name "upgrade"). You might want to check that out first.

Let us know how it goes.

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 10:31 PM, Richard D. Moores <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 11:55, Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Richard, I think you may go ahead without trepidation. I am not a Windows
> fan at all, I prefer Ubuntu. But I started using Win. 7 at work about a
> month ago, and I have to say it hasn't given me cause to grumble.
>
> Of course, a month is hardly sufficient time to have a strong opinion, but I
> can tell you that it works just fine.

Thanks, but I'm not worried about Win 7 working well when perfectly
installed. I'm concerned that if I upgrade to 7 from Vista using the
upgrade disk I have, that THAT 7 on my laptop will end up with
problems caused by the install.

Dick



--
Regards,
Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
http://www.lloyddube.com

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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

DickM
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 13:39, Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Dick,
>
> In that case, perhaps you could externally back up all your important stuff
> and then format your hard disk. That way, any drivers etc intended for
> Windows Vista will be wiped off, and you can then perform a clean
> installation from your disk. Now, as far as upgrade disks go, I do not know
> whether it will work as a "clean installation" disk, or whether it is only
> meant for use on an existing windows installation (hence the name
> "upgrade"). You might want to check that out first.

I don't believe the disk I have will enable a clean installation.

I found a relevant thread in the WindowsSecrets Lounge:
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/32sanhp>, which seems to have some good
info and advice.

> Let us know how it goes.

OK.

Dick
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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Marc Tompkins
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Richard D. Moores <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 13:39, Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Dick,
>
> In that case, perhaps you could externally back up all your important stuff
> and then format your hard disk. That way, any drivers etc intended for
> Windows Vista will be wiped off, and you can then perform a clean
> installation from your disk. Now, as far as upgrade disks go, I do not know
> whether it will work as a "clean installation" disk, or whether it is only
> meant for use on an existing windows installation (hence the name
> "upgrade"). You might want to check that out first.

I don't believe the disk I have will enable a clean installation.
I'm pretty sure it will:
http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/clean_install_upgrade_media.asp
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2009/10/27/clean-install-windows-7-with-upgrade-media-and-product-key-on-formatted-or-empty-blank-hard-drive/
 
The upshot of both those articles is: boot from the upgrade disk as if it were a normal Full Install disk; when it asks for the Windows key, leave it blank.  Don't enter the key until after the installation is complete, when you want to activate. 

Since you CAN use that disk as a clean install, I definitely recommend that you DO.  When I upgraded my laptop to Windows 7, I bought myself a new 500GB hard drive for the purpose.  $60 and five minutes with a small screwdriver brought me a huge dividend in peace of mind.

--
www.fsrtechnologies.com

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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Steven D'Aprano-8
In reply to this post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 04:55:13 am Sithembewena Lloyd Dube wrote:
> Richard, I think you may go ahead without trepidation. I am not a
> Windows fan at all, I prefer Ubuntu. But I started using Win. 7 at
> work about a month ago, and I have to say it hasn't given me cause to
> grumble.

I don't think Richard is asking whether Windows 7 is worth using. I
think he's asking, is it painful to upgrade from Vista to Windows 7.


> Of course, a month is hardly sufficient time to have a strong
> opinion, but I can tell you that it works just fine.

Apart from:

having no default email client (what sort of two-bit operating system
doesn't have an email client in 2010?);

the automatic upgrades that run silently in the background with no easy
way to turn them on or off (always fun when your Internet download cap
is completely used up TWO DAYS into the month -- especially when you
don't know because you can't read the email from your ISP due to not
having an email client, and you can't download one because all the
available bandwidth is being consumed by the updates);

the gratuitous UI changes (am I missing something, or does Internet
Explorer no longer have a menubar?);

the use of third-party applications like Adobe Acrobat Reader which have
become overloaded with *stupid* security vulnerabilities *by design*
(years after Microsoft themselves got burnt, time and time again, by
allowing the web-browser and mail client to execute random code found
on the internet, somebody at Adobe apparently thought it would be a
good idea for the PDF reader to do the same thing *facepalms*); and

consequently the proliferation of adware and spyware (even
the "legitimate" anti-malware companies fill your browser with ad-laden
toolbars and try terrifying the user with "your computer is
unprotected" warnings -- no wonder the average user can't tell the
difference between legitimate anti-malware and trojan horses).

On the other hand, it is quite pretty.

(Yes, I am speaking from experience. Everything I have mentioned I have
seen with my own eyes.)


--
Steven D'Aprano
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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

DickM
In reply to this post by Marc Tompkins
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 15:04, Marc Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Richard D. Moores <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 13:39, Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi Dick,
>> >
>> > In that case, perhaps you could externally back up all your important
>> > stuff
>> > and then format your hard disk. That way, any drivers etc intended for
>> > Windows Vista will be wiped off, and you can then perform a clean
>> > installation from your disk. Now, as far as upgrade disks go, I do not
>> > know
>> > whether it will work as a "clean installation" disk, or whether it is
>> > only
>> > meant for use on an existing windows installation (hence the name
>> > "upgrade"). You might want to check that out first.
>>
>> I don't believe the disk I have will enable a clean installation.
>
> I'm pretty sure it will:
> http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/clean_install_upgrade_media.asp
> http://www.mydigitallife.info/2009/10/27/clean-install-windows-7-with-upgrade-media-and-product-key-on-formatted-or-empty-blank-hard-drive/
>
> The upshot of both those articles is: boot from the upgrade disk as if it
> were a normal Full Install disk; when it asks for the Windows key, leave it
> blank.  Don't enter the key until after the installation is complete, when
> you want to activate.
>
> Since you CAN use that disk as a clean install, I definitely recommend that
> you DO.  When I upgraded my laptop to Windows 7, I bought myself a new 500GB
> hard drive for the purpose.  $60 and five minutes with a small screwdriver
> brought me a huge dividend in peace of mind.

I have to get some sleep right now, but I'll give your suggestion
serious consideration when I get up.

Thanks very much, Marc.

Dick
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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Marc Tompkins
In reply to this post by Steven D'Aprano-8
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Steven D'Aprano <[hidden email]> wrote:
Apart from:
 The OP was asking about upgrading from Vista to 7, so let me answer your objections here...

having no default email client (what sort of two-bit operating system
doesn't have an email client in 2010?);
Jesus, you _miss_ Outlook Express?  Seriously:  the new default is webmail.  Like it, don't like it, but it's really not as if you can't get your mail.
 
the automatic upgrades that run silently in the background with no easy
way to turn them on or off
Just like XP and Vista, you're asked during installation whether you want to allow or disallow automatic updates.  If you breeze past that question, then - just like in XP and Vista - you can right-click on the little icon that appears in your system tray (oops, I mean "notification area.")  True, Windows 7 is proactive about hiding stuff in the tray... but it does still appear there.

A more legitimate gripe is that, after downloading those updates, Windows insists on applying them when you shut down the computer.  If you're in a hurry, that can be a PITA.
 
(always fun when your Internet download cap
is completely used up TWO DAYS into the month -- especially when you
don't know because you can't read the email from your ISP due to not
having an email client,
To paraphrase, "what sort of two-bit ISP doesn't have a webmail site in 2010?"

the gratuitous UI changes (am I missing something, or does Internet
Explorer no longer have a menubar?);
That's IE, not Windows.  Windows 7 comes with IE 8; Vista came with IE 7; XP came with IE 6.  I don't care for the look myself, but then I never use IE if I can avoid it (Firefox for mail and searching, 'cause I love me some plugins; Chrome for everything else, 'cause it's fast as hell.  IE when I'm on a client machine and there's nothing better.)  IE 8 is being rolled out to all versions of Windows in any case, so that's not a reason not to upgrade - unless you were planning to turn off Windows Update in Vista, which is a bad idea for security reasons...

the use of third-party applications like Adobe Acrobat Reader which have
become overloaded with *stupid* security vulnerabilities *by design*
(years after Microsoft themselves got burnt, time and time again, by
allowing the web-browser and mail client to execute random code found
on the internet, somebody at Adobe apparently thought it would be a
good idea for the PDF reader to do the same thing *facepalms*); and
Microsoft doesn't provide a PDF reader of its own - I'm not sure, but I suspect that's for legal reasons - so whatever PDF reader you use, it HAS to be third-party.  Why Adobe?  Probably because it's called "_Adobe_ Acrobat?"

Now, I hate Adobe products for the same reasons you mentioned, so I use and recommend the free Foxit Reader (www.foxitsoftware.com).  But that was the same under XP and Vista.
 
consequently the proliferation of adware and spyware (even
the "legitimate" anti-malware companies fill your browser with ad-laden
toolbars and try terrifying the user with "your computer is
unprotected" warnings -- no wonder the average user can't tell the
difference between legitimate anti-malware and trojan horses).

 Again, not new in 7 - and, as a matter of fact, possibly somewhat better than in Vista.
 
On the other hand, it is quite pretty.
Screw pretty.  Pretty don't pay the rent.  First thing I do on any machine I get my hands on is turn off the $%^&* Aero Glass - why would I take that kind of performance hit for the dubious pleasure of a translucent titlebar?  But guess what?  MS introduced that piece of idiotism in - wait for it - Vista.

My reasons FOR upgrading:

- Better UAC.  UAC is never going to feel natural to users (like me - I freely admit it) who came up from DOS, and are stuck in a single-user mindset.  Users raised on *nixes, on the other hand, find UAC to be a laughable baby step on the way to a real least-privilege security model.  That said, 7 does a much more natural job (than Vista) of asking for elevation only when needed, and staying out of the way most of the rest of the time.

- Faster sleep/hibernation and wakeup.  I have no idea what they did under the covers, but on my laptop under Vista 64-bit, it took a minute or so to hibernate, and 30 seconds or so to wake up.  7 takes 30 seconds or so to hibernate, and 15 seconds to wake up.  Not astronomical, but coupled with the next point, it's HUGE.

- Better wireless networking.  Coming out of sleep or hibernation, it used to take up to a minute and a half to connect to a known wireless network (in other words, a network I'd previously connected to and saved settings for.)  Now, I'm generally connected even before I can see the desktop - 3 to 5 seconds, maybe.  I carry my laptop everywhere, and connect to wireless networks at my clients (and Starbucks!) all day long, so this is a MAJOR deal for me.

- Seriously improved multi-monitor support.  I've loved using dual monitors since XP, but it's always been a pain.  Windows would arbitrarily decide that the external monitor was primary, or refuse to connect, or insist on duplicating the desktop on both monitors even though I told it to extend...  In 7, it just works.  I plug into external monitors at home and in several clients' offices, and 7 remembers the settings for each location (at home the second monitor is 1024x768, sitting to the left and an inch lower; at CCMG it's 1400xsomething, to the right and up a couple of inches, etc.)  If I plug in the external monitor before I wake up my computer, I don't even have to press any keys to make it work.  (If I forget, it's Fn-F4 on my machine; might be something else on a different keyboard.)  (Mac people, I'm sure you'll say that Apple has been getting this right for years.  All I know is, Microsoft didn't until now.)

There are some downsides: the afore-mentioned insistence on applying updates at shutdown (one reason why I don't shut down very often); legacy HP drivers have been removed from the distribution disk (this one's a biggie for me, 'cause I do lots of installs, and I like to use the LaserJet 4 or 5 drivers for Brother and Xerox printers); some other things that will no doubt come to mind.

Would I pay to upgrade an older machine from Vista to 7?  No; I'd just wait till it was time to replace it, and see what comes with the new one.  Would I upgrade a relatively new machine if I had a free upgrade disk?  In a red-hot minute.  (But, as previously stated, I wouldn't do an in-place upgrade.)

By the way - I love me some Ubuntu, and I dual-boot to it.  Unfortunately, however, for me Linux is like pretty: it don't pay the rent.  My clients use Windows, and (most of them) expensive vertical software that runs on Windows, and MS Office.  So I use Windows most of the time.  And I can honestly say that, if ya gotta use Windows, 7 (64-bit!) is your best bet.

--
www.fsrtechnologies.com

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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Alan Gauld
In reply to this post by Steven D'Aprano-8

"Steven D'Aprano" <[hidden email]> wrote

> having no default email client (what sort of two-bit operating
> system
> doesn't have an email client in 2010?);

To be fair to MS - and it pains me to do so - they have been beat up
so much by the lawyers that its hardlly surprising. After all they
have been forced to remove the browser from the OS in Europe
(and elsewhere?). Why not the email client too? After all, Linux
doesn't
tecchnically have a mail client (unless you count command line mail),
it's the distros that add that.

> the automatic upgrades that run silently in the background with no
> easy
> way to turn them on or off

Yes I really hate that!

> the gratuitous UI changes (am I missing something, or does Internet
> Explorer no longer have a menubar?);

None of the new MS applications do, the menu bar has been
merged into the new look toolbar. Thus making something small
and unobtrusive large and extremely obtrusive and requiring a
relearning of the whole command structure! I really don't like the
new MS UI thing, even after 6 montrhs of use it still drives me nuts!
(I use Win7 on my laptop at work)

> the use of third-party applications like Adobe Acrobat Reader which
> have
> become overloaded with *stupid* security vulnerabilities *by design*

But that applies to all OS that Reader runs on doesn't it?
Can't blame Windows 7 for that.

> consequently the proliferation of adware and spyware (even

Yep, agree with this too.

> On the other hand, it is quite pretty.

Hmm, I'm stlll not sure about that...
But then, I srtill run Windows XP in Classic mode with Windows95
style menu and start button etc.

Alan G.


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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Alan Gauld
In reply to this post by Marc Tompkins
"Marc Tompkins" <[hidden email]> wrote

> having no default email client (what sort of two-bit operating
> system
>> doesn't have an email client in 2010?);
>>
> Jesus, you _miss_ Outlook Express?  Seriously:  the new default is
> webmail.
> Like it, don't like it, but it's really not as if you can't get your
> mail.

I will miss OE. I actually quite like it, its simple but has all the
bits
I need for both email and newrgroups. I tried thunderbird and use it
on my Linux box but on windows I usually revert to OE.

And its lots better than webmail which is only useful for occasional
browsing. But I get around 200 plus emails a day (and sometimes the
same again in news messages) and trying to manage that on webmail
is a nightmare - and you can't read it while offline. I really need an
offline mail client.

> Just like XP and Vista, you're asked during installation whether you
> want to
> allow or disallow automatic updates.  If you breeze past that
> question, then
> - just like in XP and Vista - you can right-click on the little icon
> that
> appears in your system tray (oops, I mean "notification area.")

OOh. I've never noticed the icon - what does it look like? I didn't
do the install so had no say in the decision for work, but for my
home PC I'd much rather decide if/when I do "upgrades" - I've had
too mamy Windows upgrades kill my PC to the point of needing
rebuiilds!

> To paraphrase, "what sort of two-bit ISP doesn't have a webmail site
> in
> 2010?"

But webmail is no good if you've used up your bandwidth.
A background client might just have received the warning
before the quota went bang...

> - Better wireless networking.  Coming out of sleep or hibernation,
> it used
> to take up to a minute and a half to connect to a known wireless
> network

I'll need to check that - I've just gotten used to going for a coffee
when I
boot up - it usually takes me around 5 minutes for everything to get
started so I've never noticed the WiFi changes.

> - Seriously improved multi-monitor support.  I've loved using dual
> monitors

I only user this when doing powerpoint presentations but I'll need
to take a closer look.

Thanks for sharing your comments, even if this thread is seriously
off topic!

Alan G.


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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

DickM
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 07:41, Alan Gauld <[hidden email]> wrote:
> "Marc Tompkins" <[hidden email]> wrote

> I will miss OE. I actually quite like it, its simple but has all the bits
> I need for both email and newrgroups. I tried thunderbird and use it
> on my Linux box but on windows I usually revert to OE.
>
> And its lots better than webmail which is only useful for occasional
> browsing. But I get around 200 plus emails a day (and sometimes the
> same again in news messages) and trying to manage that on webmail
> is a nightmare - and you can't read it while offline. I really need an
> offline mail client.

I get 200-300 emails per weekday, and Gmail handles them with aplomb.
I have over 300 labels (it's now, finally, possible to nest them).
(Tip: use [(From:address) OR (From:me AND ((To: OR Cc:)address))] --
delete the square brackets -- in the "Has the words" textbox when
making a filter that will apply to all mail from yourself to: or cc'd
to an address OR from an address). Labels can be nested and color
coded. Be sure to check out the numerous other features, including the
ones on the "Labs" tab. BTW I used Eudora for a decade, and also OE
because I had to teach it to my wife. A "feature" very important to me
is that with Gmail, my mail is just always THERE, with no need to
download it -- and often INSTANTLY there because there are so many
other Gmail users. I'll stop my praise of Gmail here because this is
an OT of an OT thread :) .

Dick
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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Marc Tompkins
In reply to this post by Alan Gauld
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Alan Gauld <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Marc Tompkins" <[hidden email]> wrote

having no default email client (what sort of two-bit operating system
doesn't have an email client in 2010?);

Jesus, you _miss_ Outlook Express?  Seriously:  the new default is webmail.
Like it, don't like it, but it's really not as if you can't get your mail.

I will miss OE. I actually quite like it, its simple but has all the bits
I need for both email and newrgroups. I tried thunderbird and use it
on my Linux box but on windows I usually revert to OE.
I always hated OE, but I suppose it does have its uses. Backing up OE was always problematic...

 
And its lots better than webmail which is only useful for occasional
browsing. But I get around 200 plus emails a day (and sometimes the
same again in news messages) and trying to manage that on webmail
is a nightmare - and you can't read it while offline. I really need an
offline mail client.
As Richard mentioned and I will second, GMail handles that volume easily; Gears enables offline reading, and if you've drunk the Kool-Aid like I have, integration with Android is seamless.  Also it's instantly portable from machine to machine.

In any case, I only meant to whole-heartedly endorse upgrading from Vista to 7, and dismiss the loss of OE as a reason not to.  Embracing the GMail way appears to be another one of those dreaded religious topics - I certainly can feel myself morphing into a ranting fanatic...


Just like XP and Vista, you're asked during installation whether you want to
allow or disallow automatic updates.  If you breeze past that question, then
- just like in XP and Vista - you can right-click on the little icon that
appears in your system tray (oops, I mean "notification area.")

OOh. I've never noticed the icon - what does it look like? I didn't
do the install so had no say in the decision for work, but for my
home PC I'd much rather decide if/when I do "upgrades" - I've had
too mamy Windows upgrades kill my PC to the point of needing
rebuiilds!
It looks like a rectangular pane of glass (a Window, maybe?) with an orange halo orbiting it.  I don't see it on my machine at the moment (because I - wait for it - turned off automatic updates when I installed), so I'm a little fuzzy on whether it's a left-click, double-click, or right-click that gets you the option to turn off the auto updates.
Regardless, here's a more direct way:
   Control Panel\System and Security\Windows Update\Change settings


- Better wireless networking.  Coming out of sleep or hibernation, it used
to take up to a minute and a half to connect to a known wireless network

I'll need to check that - I've just gotten used to going for a coffee when I
boot up - it usually takes me around 5 minutes for everything to get
started so I've never noticed the WiFi changes.
 
I was driving on the freeway a while back, talking to my sister on the phone (hands-free!) when she mentioned that her computer was giving her trouble.  I exited and pulled into a Starbucks I'd used before (so my machine already knew "attwifi7" or whatever it is).  I opened my laptop, signed in, and used Chrome to sign into the AT&T captive portal; within less than a minute of my butt hitting the banquette I was in Copilot.  She and I commiserated about the good old days when at least I could have ordered my coffee before I had to get down to work... 8-)


--
www.fsrtechnologies.com

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Re: [Tutor] OT: need computer advice from wise Tutors

Steven D'Aprano-8
In reply to this post by DickM
On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 03:07:47 am Richard D. Moores wrote:
> A "feature" very important to me
> is that with Gmail, my mail is just always THERE, with no need to
> download it

You see your email without downloading it? You don't understand how the
Internet works, do you?

*wry grin*


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Steven D'Aprano
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