Upgrading tcl/tk deps

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Upgrading tcl/tk deps

Brian Curtin
Can someone let me in on the process to upgrade tcl and tk on
svn.python.org? For the VS2010 port it looks like I need to upgrade
since the 8.5.9 versions do not work. They use link options that choke
on 2010. Taking 8.5.11, which is the current release, seems to work
out alright so far.

It seems as easy as downloading the tarball and checking that in. Am I
missing any official process here?
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Re: Upgrading tcl/tk deps

"Martin v. Löwis"

Zitat von Brian Curtin <[hidden email]>:

> Can someone let me in on the process to upgrade tcl and tk on
> svn.python.org? For the VS2010 port it looks like I need to upgrade
> since the 8.5.9 versions do not work. They use link options that choke
> on 2010. Taking 8.5.11, which is the current release, seems to work
> out alright so far.
>
> It seems as easy as downloading the tarball and checking that in. Am I
> missing any official process here?

Yes. There is a set of changes that you need to preserve. Tk *never*
works with any recent VC compilers, so even if you use a new version, you
still likely have to adjust the sources and the build process. Also, make
sure Tix works.

So there are two options:
a) adjust the existing sources to work with the new compiler. To do so,
    modify tk-8.5.9.x (or whatever we currently use), then tag your  
modifications
    as tk-8.5.9.<next> (would be .1 AFAICT), then update Tools/buildbot and
    PCbuild/readme.txt to refer to these.
b) import new sources into tk-8.X.Y.x, then go through the changes in  
tk-8.5.9.x,
    and port over what is still needed. Again, tag your imported tree so that
    the Python tree refers to the tag, allowing for modifications to Tk
    should they be necessary.

Switching to the most recent Tk release is a good idea, anyway, so b) is
preferred.

Regards,
Martin

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Re: Upgrading tcl/tk deps

Terry Reedy
On 4/9/2012 5:49 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

>
> Zitat von Brian Curtin <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Can someone let me in on the process to upgrade tcl and tk on
>> svn.python.org? For the VS2010 port it looks like I need to upgrade
>> since the 8.5.9 versions do not work. They use link options that choke
>> on 2010. Taking 8.5.11, which is the current release, seems to work
>> out alright so far.
>>
>> It seems as easy as downloading the tarball and checking that in. Am I
>> missing any official process here?
>
> Yes. There is a set of changes that you need to preserve. Tk *never*
> works with any recent VC compilers, so even if you use a new version, you
> still likely have to adjust the sources and the build process. Also, make
> sure Tix works.
>
> So there are two options:
> a) adjust the existing sources to work with the new compiler. To do so,
> modify tk-8.5.9.x (or whatever we currently use), then tag your
> modifications
> as tk-8.5.9.<next> (would be .1 AFAICT), then update Tools/buildbot and
> PCbuild/readme.txt to refer to these.
> b) import new sources into tk-8.X.Y.x, then go through the changes in
> tk-8.5.9.x,
> and port over what is still needed. Again, tag your imported tree so that
> the Python tree refers to the tag, allowing for modifications to Tk
> should they be necessary.
>
> Switching to the most recent Tk release is a good idea, anyway, so b) is
> preferred.

In particular, it should include a recent fix so that French keyboards
work with tk/tkinter and hence Idle better than now. There has been more
than one complaint about this.

--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: Upgrading tcl/tk deps

Brian Curtin
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 18:41, Terry Reedy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In particular, it should include a recent fix so that French keyboards work
> with tk/tkinter and hence Idle better than now. There has been more than one
> complaint about this.

Do you know when this was fixed or have any information about it? Tcl
and Tk 8.5.11 were released Nov 4, 2011. If it was fixed after that I
can look into patching our copy of whatever projects are affected.
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Re: Upgrading tcl/tk deps

Terry Reedy
On 4/9/2012 7:53 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 18:41, Terry Reedy<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> In particular, it should include a recent fix so that French keyboards work
>> with tk/tkinter and hence Idle better than now. There has been more than one
>> complaint about this.
>
> Do you know when this was fixed or have any information about it? Tcl
> and Tk 8.5.11 were released Nov 4, 2011. If it was fixed after that I
> can look into patching our copy of whatever projects are affected.

The patch is specifically for tkMacOS, 29/1/12
http://core.tcl.tk/tk/info/9844fe10b9

so it apparently does not affect Windows or what we include with Windows
build. But it was a show stopper for some French Mac users, including
one professor who wanted to use Python for an undergraduate course.

On Mar 4, Ned Daily wrote on idle-sig list:

Update: The fix has now been released in the latest ActiveState Tcl 8.5
for Mac OS X release (8.5.11.1) available here:

     http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads

It appears to fix the French keyboard tilde problem and other similar
problems with composite characters, like Option-U + vowel to form
"umlauted" vowels in the U.S. input method.  Many thanks to Adrian
Robert, Kevin Walzer, and the ActiveState team for addressing this nasty
problem.

If you install ActiveState Tcl 8.5.x, it will automatically be used by
the python.org 2.7.x, 3.2.x, and 3.3.x 64-bit/32-bit Pythons for OS X
10.6 and 10.7.  It will *not* be used by the Apple-supplied system
Pythons or by 32-bit-only python.org Pythons.   More details here:

     http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/
===

So the latest A.S. Windows release should be fine as the base for our
Windows release.

Terry
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Re: Upgrading tcl/tk deps

Brian Curtin
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 20:53, Terry Reedy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 4/9/2012 7:53 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 18:41, Terry Reedy<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>> In particular, it should include a recent fix so that French keyboards
>>> work
>>> with tk/tkinter and hence Idle better than now. There has been more than
>>> one
>>> complaint about this.
>>
>>
>> Do you know when this was fixed or have any information about it? Tcl
>> and Tk 8.5.11 were released Nov 4, 2011. If it was fixed after that I
>> can look into patching our copy of whatever projects are affected.
>
>
> The patch is specifically for tkMacOS, 29/1/12
> http://core.tcl.tk/tk/info/9844fe10b9
>
> so it apparently does not affect Windows or what we include with Windows
> build. But it was a show stopper for some French Mac users, including one
> professor who wanted to use Python for an undergraduate course.
>
> On Mar 4, Ned Daily wrote on idle-sig list:
>
> Update: The fix has now been released in the latest ActiveState Tcl 8.5
> for Mac OS X release (8.5.11.1) available here:
>
>    http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads
>
> It appears to fix the French keyboard tilde problem and other similar
> problems with composite characters, like Option-U + vowel to form
> "umlauted" vowels in the U.S. input method.  Many thanks to Adrian
> Robert, Kevin Walzer, and the ActiveState team for addressing this nasty
> problem.
>
> If you install ActiveState Tcl 8.5.x, it will automatically be used by
> the python.org 2.7.x, 3.2.x, and 3.3.x 64-bit/32-bit Pythons for OS X
> 10.6 and 10.7.  It will *not* be used by the Apple-supplied system
> Pythons or by 32-bit-only python.org Pythons.   More details here:
>
>    http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/
> ===
>
> So the latest A.S. Windows release should be fine as the base for our
> Windows release.
>
> Terry

The Windows build works with 8.5.11 so I imagine we would just use
that. If anyone wants to pull it all out and make it use some
third-party installer that's up to them.

I can try applying the relevant patches to the 8.5.11 we have, but I
don't really have the time or knowledge to test them. I don't know
anything about tcl/tk and don't know a whole lot about Macs.
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Re: Upgrading tcl/tk deps

Ned Deily
In article
<[hidden email]>,
 Brian Curtin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 20:53, Terry Reedy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 4/9/2012 7:53 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 18:41, Terry Reedy<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> In particular, it should include a recent fix so that French keyboards
> >>> work
> >>> with tk/tkinter and hence Idle better than now. There has been more than
> >>> one
> >>> complaint about this.
[...]
> The Windows build works with 8.5.11 so I imagine we would just use
> that. If anyone wants to pull it all out and make it use some
> third-party installer that's up to them.
>
> I can try applying the relevant patches to the 8.5.11 we have, but I
> don't really have the time or knowledge to test them. I don't know
> anything about tcl/tk and don't know a whole lot about Macs.

The Tk fix Terry refers is applicable only to the OS X Aqua Cocoa Tcl/Tk
8.5 port.  It has nothing to do with Windows, any other OS X Tcl/Tk, or
any other platform.  Further, the Tcl/TK source Martin is talking about
is used only by the Windows installer builds.  The python.org OS X
installers do not build or supply Tcl/Tk; they link with the
Apple-supplied Tcl/Tks and compatible distributions, like the
ActiveState ones.   So this is all a non-issue.

--
 Ned Deily,
 [hidden email]

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Re: Upgrading tcl/tk deps

"Martin v. Löwis"
> The Tk fix Terry refers is applicable only to the OS X Aqua Cocoa Tcl/Tk
> 8.5 port.  It has nothing to do with Windows, any other OS X Tcl/Tk, or
> any other platform.  Further, the Tcl/TK source Martin is talking about
> is used only by the Windows installer builds.  The python.org OS X
> installers do not build or supply Tcl/Tk; they link with the
> Apple-supplied Tcl/Tks and compatible distributions, like the
> ActiveState ones.   So this is all a non-issue.

Thanks for the clarification. I was about to write something less polite.

Regards,
Martin
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