VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

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VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

Lukáš Duběda
Hi there everyone,

I have a, perhaps lame, question.

I downloaded the VS 2010 Integrated Shell and installed the IronPython
tools for it.

However, does the VS 2010 IS have a WPF and WinForms designer? I can't
seem to get it working. :(

Also, the IPy tools are available only for the Integrated Shell and
actual commercial versions of Visual Studio, is that right?

I'm asking because I get both WPF and WinForms designers in the Visual
Studio 2010 C# Express, but it's a pain to design my GUI in
one package and write IPy code for it in another.

Is there any solution for this?

Thank you very much in advance, cheers,

--
Lukáš Duběda
Director
[T] +420 602 444 164

duber studio(tm)
[M] [hidden email]
[W] http://www.duber.cz

[A] R.A.Dvorského 601, Praha 10
[A] 10900, Czech Republic, Europe
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Re: VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

Markus Schaber-6
Hi, Lukáš,

The restriction here is not within IronPython tools, but within Visual Studio Express.

Microsoft released the free (as in "free beer") express editions with artificial restrictions. (My personal guess is that one reason is to prevent other free IDEs from gaining enough momentum that they can start rivaling the commercial editions, and another one is that their marketers can argument "there are powerful free development tools for .NET", so students etc. don't go to Java (Eclipse, Netbeans), or Linux.).

One of those restrictions is that they only support one language (one cannot edit C# and VB projects in the same running instance, even when both editions are installed), another one is that no plugins are allowed.

Those restrictions are meant to motivate "power users" (or any serious user) to buy the commercial versions.

The "integrated Shell" is the unrestricted, but barebone framework / environment without any languages and plugins, they release it for free to 3rd party vendors (like IronPython tools, or Delphi Prism), to bind them to their framework and platform.

Regards,
Markus

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:users-
> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Lukáš Dubeda
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. April 2011 19:28
> An: Discussion of IronPython
> Betreff: [IronPython] VS 2010 Integrated Shell question
>
> Hi there everyone,
>
> I have a, perhaps lame, question.
>
> I downloaded the VS 2010 Integrated Shell and installed the IronPython
> tools for it.
>
> However, does the VS 2010 IS have a WPF and WinForms designer? I can't
> seem to get it working. :(
>
> Also, the IPy tools are available only for the Integrated Shell and actual
> commercial versions of Visual Studio, is that right?
>
> I'm asking because I get both WPF and WinForms designers in the Visual
> Studio 2010 C# Express, but it's a pain to design my GUI in one package
> and write IPy code for it in another.
>
> Is there any solution for this?
>
> Thank you very much in advance, cheers,
>
> --
> Lukáš Duběda
> Director
> [T] +420 602 444 164
>
> duber studio(tm)
> [M] [hidden email]
> [W] http://www.duber.cz
>
> [A] R.A.Dvorského 601, Praha 10
> [A] 10900, Czech Republic, Europe
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
_______________________________________________
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Re: VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

Lukáš Duběda
Thanks Markus, for the explanation.

So, basically, if I buy the VS 2010 Professional,
I'll get both, the IronPython tools support as well as
the ability to design WPF or WinForms applications?

Thanks again, much appretiated,

Lukáš Duběda
Director
[T] +420 602 444 164

duber studio(tm)
[M] [hidden email]
[W] http://www.duber.cz

[A] R.A.Dvorského 601, Praha 10
[A] 10900, Czech Republic, Europe

On 13.4.2011 9:41, Markus Schaber wrote:

> Hi, Lukáš,
>
> The restriction here is not within IronPython tools, but within Visual Studio Express.
>
> Microsoft released the free (as in "free beer") express editions with artificial restrictions. (My personal guess is that one reason is to prevent other free IDEs from gaining enough momentum that they can start rivaling the commercial editions, and another one is that their marketers can argument "there are powerful free development tools for .NET", so students etc. don't go to Java (Eclipse, Netbeans), or Linux.).
>
> One of those restrictions is that they only support one language (one cannot edit C# and VB projects in the same running instance, even when both editions are installed), another one is that no plugins are allowed.
>
> Those restrictions are meant to motivate "power users" (or any serious user) to buy the commercial versions.
>
> The "integrated Shell" is the unrestricted, but barebone framework / environment without any languages and plugins, they release it for free to 3rd party vendors (like IronPython tools, or Delphi Prism), to bind them to their framework and platform.
>
> Regards,
> Markus
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:users-
>> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Lukáš Dubeda
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. April 2011 19:28
>> An: Discussion of IronPython
>> Betreff: [IronPython] VS 2010 Integrated Shell question
>>
>> Hi there everyone,
>>
>> I have a, perhaps lame, question.
>>
>> I downloaded the VS 2010 Integrated Shell and installed the IronPython
>> tools for it.
>>
>> However, does the VS 2010 IS have a WPF and WinForms designer? I can't
>> seem to get it working. :(
>>
>> Also, the IPy tools are available only for the Integrated Shell and actual
>> commercial versions of Visual Studio, is that right?
>>
>> I'm asking because I get both WPF and WinForms designers in the Visual
>> Studio 2010 C# Express, but it's a pain to design my GUI in one package
>> and write IPy code for it in another.
>>
>> Is there any solution for this?
>>
>> Thank you very much in advance, cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Lukáš Duběda
>> Director
>> [T] +420 602 444 164
>>
>> duber studio(tm)
>> [M] [hidden email]
>> [W] http://www.duber.cz
>>
>> [A] R.A.Dvorského 601, Praha 10
>> [A] 10900, Czech Republic, Europe
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

Dino Viehland
Lukáš wrote:
> Thanks Markus, for the explanation.
>
> So, basically, if I buy the VS 2010 Professional, I'll get both, the IronPython
> tools support as well as the ability to design WPF or WinForms applications?

There is no WinForm designer support in Python tools - we just have a simple
template for creating a WinForms app but you'll have to write all of the UI code
by hand. This is because the WinForms designer is actually very heavily built
around round-tripping statically typed code to generate the UI.  We did do this
w/ IronPython 1.x in IronPythonStudio and someone could port this forward to
IpyTools if they really wanted to - but it was very ugly and involved lots of
decorators and other gunk to keep VS happy.

I just tried the WPF support in the integrated shell and that does work - here's
the screen shot to prove it: http://i.imgur.com/AWE62.png  WPF is awesome in
contrast to WinForms because everything's in the XAML and therefore we just
need to add a little bit of integration to make the XAML load nicely in Python.

There was the bug in Beta 1 of PTVS where the toolbox was broken in the WPF
designer but this  should just work with Beta 2 or if the original IpyTools.  But
either way VS Pro won't buy you much in terms of UI designer support.



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Re: VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

Lukáš Duběda
Hi Dino,

thanks for the info.

Now, I'm wondering, how did you get the WPF designer to
work in the Integrated Shell version of VS? I don't seem
to be able to get it working (basically after choosing
the WPF IPy template to start with, nothing shows up). :(

Thanks a lot in advance!

Lukáš Duběda
Director
[T] +420 602 444 164

duber studio(tm)
[M] [hidden email]
[W] http://www.duber.cz

[A] R.A.Dvorského 601, Praha 10
[A] 10900, Czech Republic, Europe

On 13.4.2011 20:00, Dino Viehland wrote:

> Lukáš wrote:
>> Thanks Markus, for the explanation.
>>
>> So, basically, if I buy the VS 2010 Professional, I'll get both, the IronPython
>> tools support as well as the ability to design WPF or WinForms applications?
>
> There is no WinForm designer support in Python tools - we just have a simple
> template for creating a WinForms app but you'll have to write all of the UI code
> by hand. This is because the WinForms designer is actually very heavily built
> around round-tripping statically typed code to generate the UI.  We did do this
> w/ IronPython 1.x in IronPythonStudio and someone could port this forward to
> IpyTools if they really wanted to - but it was very ugly and involved lots of
> decorators and other gunk to keep VS happy.
>
> I just tried the WPF support in the integrated shell and that does work - here's
> the screen shot to prove it: http://i.imgur.com/AWE62.png  WPF is awesome in
> contrast to WinForms because everything's in the XAML and therefore we just
> need to add a little bit of integration to make the XAML load nicely in Python.
>
> There was the bug in Beta 1 of PTVS where the toolbox was broken in the WPF
> designer but this  should just work with Beta 2 or if the original IpyTools.  But
> either way VS Pro won't buy you much in terms of UI designer support.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
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Re: VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

Dino Viehland
Lukáš wrote:
> Now, I'm wondering, how did you get the WPF designer to work in the
> Integrated Shell version of VS? I don't seem to be able to get it working
> (basically after choosing the WPF IPy template to start with, nothing shows
> up). :(
>

I just did file->new project, selected the WPF project, and then double clicked
on the XAML file in the new project to open the designer.  
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Re: VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

Lukáš Duběda
Ah, of course,

I had the project explorer (or whatever is that area called) hidden
and thus I wasn't able to select the XAML file.

Sorry for this, it works now for me. Thank you very much, once again! :)

Lukáš Duběda
Director
[T] +420 602 444 164

duber studio(tm)
[M] [hidden email]
[W] http://www.duber.cz

[A] R.A.Dvorského 601, Praha 10
[A] 10900, Czech Republic, Europe

On 13.4.2011 22:43, Dino Viehland wrote:

> Lukáš wrote:
>> Now, I'm wondering, how did you get the WPF designer to work in the
>> Integrated Shell version of VS? I don't seem to be able to get it working
>> (basically after choosing the WPF IPy template to start with, nothing shows
>> up). :(
>>
>
> I just did file->new project, selected the WPF project, and then double clicked
> on the XAML file in the new project to open the designer.
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
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Re: VS 2010 Integrated Shell question

Markus Schaber-6
In reply to this post by Lukáš Duběda
Hi, Lukáš,

Yes. I did not try it with VS 2010 myself, but it is documented that way, and it was the same with the 2008 version where I tried the Express edition at home and the professional at work.

Grüße,
Markus


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:users-
> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Lukáš Dubeda
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. April 2011 18:59
> An: Discussion of IronPython
> Betreff: Re: [IronPython] VS 2010 Integrated Shell question
>
> Thanks Markus, for the explanation.
>
> So, basically, if I buy the VS 2010 Professional, I'll get both, the
> IronPython tools support as well as the ability to design WPF or WinForms
> applications?
>
> Thanks again, much appretiated,
>
> Lukáš Duběda
> Director
> [T] +420 602 444 164
>
> duber studio(tm)
> [M] [hidden email]
> [W] http://www.duber.cz
>
> [A] R.A.Dvorského 601, Praha 10
> [A] 10900, Czech Republic, Europe
>
> On 13.4.2011 9:41, Markus Schaber wrote:
> > Hi, Lukáš,
> >
> > The restriction here is not within IronPython tools, but within Visual
> Studio Express.
> >
> > Microsoft released the free (as in "free beer") express editions with
> artificial restrictions. (My personal guess is that one reason is to
> prevent other free IDEs from gaining enough momentum that they can start
> rivaling the commercial editions, and another one is that their marketers
> can argument "there are powerful free development tools for .NET", so
> students etc. don't go to Java (Eclipse, Netbeans), or Linux.).
> >
> > One of those restrictions is that they only support one language (one
> cannot edit C# and VB projects in the same running instance, even when
> both editions are installed), another one is that no plugins are allowed.
> >
> > Those restrictions are meant to motivate "power users" (or any serious
> user) to buy the commercial versions.
> >
> > The "integrated Shell" is the unrestricted, but barebone framework /
> environment without any languages and plugins, they release it for free to
> 3rd party vendors (like IronPython tools, or Delphi Prism), to bind them
> to their framework and platform.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Markus
> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:users-
> >> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Lukáš Dubeda
> >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. April 2011 19:28
> >> An: Discussion of IronPython
> >> Betreff: [IronPython] VS 2010 Integrated Shell question
> >>
> >> Hi there everyone,
> >>
> >> I have a, perhaps lame, question.
> >>
> >> I downloaded the VS 2010 Integrated Shell and installed the
> >> IronPython tools for it.
> >>
> >> However, does the VS 2010 IS have a WPF and WinForms designer? I
> >> can't seem to get it working. :(
> >>
> >> Also, the IPy tools are available only for the Integrated Shell and
> >> actual commercial versions of Visual Studio, is that right?
> >>
> >> I'm asking because I get both WPF and WinForms designers in the
> >> Visual Studio 2010 C# Express, but it's a pain to design my GUI in
> >> one package and write IPy code for it in another.
> >>
> >> Is there any solution for this?
> >>
> >> Thank you very much in advance, cheers,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Lukáš Duběda
> >> Director
> >> [T] +420 602 444 164
> >>
> >> duber studio(tm)
> >> [M] [hidden email]
> >> [W] http://www.duber.cz
> >>
> >> [A] R.A.Dvorského 601, Praha 10
> >> [A] 10900, Czech Republic, Europe
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Users mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com