What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
10 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Paul Hoffman-3
Hi again. I use BBEdit on the Mac and love it for editing all sorts of
text files. It does a very nice job with Python programs: it handles
indentation well; it shows me balanced opens when typing closing ), ],
and }; it has a drop-down for all the subroutine names, and a few
other things.

However, I haven't used any of the free/paid Python IDEs, and I
realized that I might be missing some Really Cool Features that would
cause me to use an IDE for my Python work and my text editor for the
rest of the text work (like the HTML files documenting the Python...).
What useful features am I missing?

Yes, this could cause a "my IDE is best" war, but I think some of us
on the sidelines would benefit. :-)

--Paul Hoffman
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Shannon -jj Behrens
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Paul Hoffman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi again. I use BBEdit on the Mac and love it for editing all sorts of
text files. It does a very nice job with Python programs: it handles
indentation well; it shows me balanced opens when typing closing ), ],
and }; it has a drop-down for all the subroutine names, and a few
other things.

However, I haven't used any of the free/paid Python IDEs, and I
realized that I might be missing some Really Cool Features that would
cause me to use an IDE for my Python work and my text editor for the
rest of the text work (like the HTML files documenting the Python...).
What useful features am I missing?

Yes, this could cause a "my IDE is best" war, but I think some of us
on the sidelines would benefit. :-)

The exact same conversation just happened on the SF Ruby Meetup mailing list.  Here's a link (http://www.sfruby.info/messages/30916602/).  Unfortunately, Meetup doesn't have a threaded view of the mailing list.

Here's a summary of my opinion on the subject:

 * Lots of people still like Vim.

 * Lots of people are using the new Janus set of plugins for Vim.  I tried it, and it didn't bring me joy at all.

 * Emacs seems to be more popular for Python than for Ruby.

 * Sublime Text 2 is an up-and-coming popular contender in the text editor wars among Ruby users.  I'm a Vim diehard, but I've been using Sublime Text 2 for a few weeks now. Beware, it's commercial.

 * TextMate has traditionally been the editor of choice for Rails developers.

 * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.  They're all from the same company.  They all cost money.

 * There are lots of things that a good IDE can do that a text editor can't.

 * Generally, an IDE speeds up my development workflow in many ways, but using Vim's keybindings speeds up my text editing.

 * PyCharm's Vim keybindings are okay, but not fantastic.  PyCharm's editor isn't very sophisticated.

 * There are lots of ways in which Python and Ruby reduce the effectiveness of a good IDE.  I.e. it's less useful for Python and Ruby programmers than it is for Java programmers.

 * PyCharm and RubyMine really are amazing.  I encourage you to watch the videos on the website to get a feel for what they can do.

 * PyCharm and RubyMine aren't without flaws.  They are big software.  Sometimes they don't work as promised.  Sometimes they hang.  Sometimes they crash.  They almost always eat lots of memory, although that's less relevant these days since I have so much memory.

 * In my own experience, PyCharm and RubyMine can help you write software quicker and more correctly, and they can also help you refactor software quicker and more correctly.  However, when it comes down to moving and tweaking text, you can't beat Vim.

 * There was a great IDE panel at last year's PyCon.  PyCharm came out on top.  Most Python programmers don't care.

 * Sublime Text 2 is easier to use, easier to learn, and has more *built in* power than Vim and Emacs.  Sure, Emacs lets you do anything with Emacs Lisp.  Sublime Text 2 lets you do "anything" with Python and/or the external programming language of your choice.  It is compatible with TextMate bundles.  It has many tricks that other editors fundamentally lack (such as multiple cursors, a 10,000 foot view of your code, and the ability to guess at what the right indentation settings for a random file are).

 * NetBeans with the jVi plugin is a good compromise of IDE functionality with very good Vim keybindings, if that floats your boat.

 * I just can't get into Eclipse no matter how hard I try.  PyCharm is simply better.

Ok, I will now don a fireproof vest and hide in an undisclosed location.  I really do love talking about editors and IDEs.  It's too bad the subject always devolves into flame wars.

Best Regards,
-jj

--
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Sergey Konozenko
I've used WingIDE for a long time. There is a free version but the paid one is way better. Besides an editor, it has excellent debugging functionality.

Cheers,
Sergey

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Paul Hoffman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi again. I use BBEdit on the Mac and love it for editing all sorts of
text files. It does a very nice job with Python programs: it handles
indentation well; it shows me balanced opens when typing closing ), ],
and }; it has a drop-down for all the subroutine names, and a few
other things.

However, I haven't used any of the free/paid Python IDEs, and I
realized that I might be missing some Really Cool Features that would
cause me to use an IDE for my Python work and my text editor for the
rest of the text work (like the HTML files documenting the Python...).
What useful features am I missing?

Yes, this could cause a "my IDE is best" war, but I think some of us
on the sidelines would benefit. :-)

The exact same conversation just happened on the SF Ruby Meetup mailing list.  Here's a link (http://www.sfruby.info/messages/30916602/).  Unfortunately, Meetup doesn't have a threaded view of the mailing list.

Here's a summary of my opinion on the subject:

 * Lots of people still like Vim.

 * Lots of people are using the new Janus set of plugins for Vim.  I tried it, and it didn't bring me joy at all.

 * Emacs seems to be more popular for Python than for Ruby.

 * Sublime Text 2 is an up-and-coming popular contender in the text editor wars among Ruby users.  I'm a Vim diehard, but I've been using Sublime Text 2 for a few weeks now. Beware, it's commercial.

 * TextMate has traditionally been the editor of choice for Rails developers.

 * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.  They're all from the same company.  They all cost money.

 * There are lots of things that a good IDE can do that a text editor can't.

 * Generally, an IDE speeds up my development workflow in many ways, but using Vim's keybindings speeds up my text editing.

 * PyCharm's Vim keybindings are okay, but not fantastic.  PyCharm's editor isn't very sophisticated.

 * There are lots of ways in which Python and Ruby reduce the effectiveness of a good IDE.  I.e. it's less useful for Python and Ruby programmers than it is for Java programmers.

 * PyCharm and RubyMine really are amazing.  I encourage you to watch the videos on the website to get a feel for what they can do.

 * PyCharm and RubyMine aren't without flaws.  They are big software.  Sometimes they don't work as promised.  Sometimes they hang.  Sometimes they crash.  They almost always eat lots of memory, although that's less relevant these days since I have so much memory.

 * In my own experience, PyCharm and RubyMine can help you write software quicker and more correctly, and they can also help you refactor software quicker and more correctly.  However, when it comes down to moving and tweaking text, you can't beat Vim.

 * There was a great IDE panel at last year's PyCon.  PyCharm came out on top.  Most Python programmers don't care.

 * Sublime Text 2 is easier to use, easier to learn, and has more *built in* power than Vim and Emacs.  Sure, Emacs lets you do anything with Emacs Lisp.  Sublime Text 2 lets you do "anything" with Python and/or the external programming language of your choice.  It is compatible with TextMate bundles.  It has many tricks that other editors fundamentally lack (such as multiple cursors, a 10,000 foot view of your code, and the ability to guess at what the right indentation settings for a random file are).

 * NetBeans with the jVi plugin is a good compromise of IDE functionality with very good Vim keybindings, if that floats your boat.

 * I just can't get into Eclipse no matter how hard I try.  PyCharm is simply better.

Ok, I will now don a fireproof vest and hide in an undisclosed location.  I really do love talking about editors and IDEs.  It's too bad the subject always devolves into flame wars.

Best Regards,
-jj

--
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

jim stockford
In reply to this post by Shannon -jj Behrens


    It's been a couple of years at least since we've
had a talk on development tools. Wanna summarize with
Q&A at a BayPIGgies meeting?



On Tue, 2012-03-06 at 10:39 -0800, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Paul Hoffman <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>         Hi again. I use BBEdit on the Mac and love it for editing all
>         sorts of
>         text files. It does a very nice job with Python programs: it
>         handles
>         indentation well; it shows me balanced opens when typing
>         closing ), ],
>         and }; it has a drop-down for all the subroutine names, and a
>         few
>         other things.
>        
>         However, I haven't used any of the free/paid Python IDEs, and
>         I
>         realized that I might be missing some Really Cool Features
>         that would
>         cause me to use an IDE for my Python work and my text editor
>         for the
>         rest of the text work (like the HTML files documenting the
>         Python...).
>         What useful features am I missing?
>        
>         Yes, this could cause a "my IDE is best" war, but I think some
>         of us
>         on the sidelines would benefit. :-)
>
>
> The exact same conversation just happened on the SF Ruby Meetup
> mailing list.  Here's a link
> (http://www.sfruby.info/messages/30916602/).  Unfortunately, Meetup
> doesn't have a threaded view of the mailing list.
>
>
> Here's a summary of my opinion on the subject:
>
>
>  * Lots of people still like Vim.
>
>
>  * Lots of people are using the new Janus set of plugins for Vim.  I
> tried it, and it didn't bring me joy at all.
>
>
>  * Emacs seems to be more popular for Python than for Ruby.
>
>
>  * Sublime Text 2 is an up-and-coming popular contender in the text
> editor wars among Ruby users.  I'm a Vim diehard, but I've been using
> Sublime Text 2 for a few weeks now. Beware, it's commercial.
>
>
>  * TextMate has traditionally been the editor of choice for Rails
> developers.
>
>
>  * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is
> the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.
>  They're all from the same company.  They all cost money.
>
>
>  * There are lots of things that a good IDE can do that a text editor
> can't.
>
>
>  * Generally, an IDE speeds up my development workflow in many ways,
> but using Vim's keybindings speeds up my text editing.
>
>
>  * PyCharm's Vim keybindings are okay, but not fantastic.  PyCharm's
> editor isn't very sophisticated.
>
>
>  * There are lots of ways in which Python and Ruby reduce the
> effectiveness of a good IDE.  I.e. it's less useful for Python and
> Ruby programmers than it is for Java programmers.
>
>
>  * PyCharm and RubyMine really are amazing.  I encourage you to watch
> the videos on the website to get a feel for what they can do.
>
>
>  * PyCharm and RubyMine aren't without flaws.  They are big software.
>  Sometimes they don't work as promised.  Sometimes they hang.
>  Sometimes they crash.  They almost always eat lots of memory,
> although that's less relevant these days since I have so much memory.
>
>
>  * In my own experience, PyCharm and RubyMine can help you write
> software quicker and more correctly, and they can also help you
> refactor software quicker and more correctly.  However, when it comes
> down to moving and tweaking text, you can't beat Vim.
>
>
>  * There was a great IDE panel at last year's PyCon.  PyCharm came out
> on top.  Most Python programmers don't care.
>
>
>  * Sublime Text 2 is easier to use, easier to learn, and has more
> *built in* power than Vim and Emacs.  Sure, Emacs lets you do anything
> with Emacs Lisp.  Sublime Text 2 lets you do "anything" with Python
> and/or the external programming language of your choice.  It is
> compatible with TextMate bundles.  It has many tricks that other
> editors fundamentally lack (such as multiple cursors, a 10,000 foot
> view of your code, and the ability to guess at what the right
> indentation settings for a random file are).
>
>
>  * NetBeans with the jVi plugin is a good compromise of IDE
> functionality with very good Vim keybindings, if that floats your
> boat.
>
>
>  * I just can't get into Eclipse no matter how hard I try.  PyCharm is
> simply better.
>
>
> Ok, I will now don a fireproof vest and hide in an undisclosed
> location.  I really do love talking about editors and IDEs.  It's too
> bad the subject always devolves into flame wars.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> -jj
>
>
> --
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Dirk Bergstrom-4
In reply to this post by Paul Hoffman-3
On 03/06/2012 10:19 AM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
> However, I haven't used any of the free/paid Python IDEs, and I
> realized that I might be missing some Really Cool Features that would
> cause me to use an IDE for my Python work and my text editor for the
> rest of the text work (like the HTML files documenting the Python...).
> What useful features am I missing?

Here's a top-of-my-head list of what I like about using Eclipse with Pydev:

*) As-you-type highlighting of syntax errors, undefined variables, and a
host of other showstopper bugs.  Almost eliminates the run-fail-edit-run
loop of weeding out typos and other stupidities.

*) Integration with source control.  Changed code is highlighted in the
margins and the scrollbar.  Hover to see diffs.  I use this to keep
track of where I've been working in a file so I can easily scroll
between different sections of code I'm munging.

*) Library-aware autocompletion, with parameters.  Various other snazzy
autocompletion and autoindenting features.

*) Hover over a class/method/function name to see docstring and/or
source code.  Hit F3 to go to source (even if it's in the standard library).

*) Interactive visual debugger.

*) There's an amazing set of Emacs keybindings for Eclipse
(http://www.mulgasoft.com/).  Pretty much every feature I ever cared
about when I was a daily Emacs user.  AFAIK there isn't a decent Vi mode
available.

*) Eclipse has similar support for Javascript, CSS, HTML, Java, C, etc..
  So I can get this sort of help for all the code in my web apps.

The downside is that with great power comes great resource consumption.
  IDEs hoover up RAM and CPU like nobody's business.  Remember when
people said of Emacs "Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping"?  Multiply
that by 100 and you've got today's IDE.  They also, like any serious
software ecosystem, require a certain amount of care and feeding.  I
think the tradeoff is worthwhile, but it's definitely not a free lunch.

The particular IDE you choose is a matter of taste, but I believe most
programmers will be more productive using an IDE.  IMNSHO anyone coding
in Java without an IDE is certifiably insane.  For Python it's not so
clear cut but I would certainly never go back to Emacs, powerful as it is.

> Yes, this could cause a "my IDE is best" war, but I think some of us
> on the sidelines would benefit. :-)

Holy War!  Raise the sword of Emacs and smite the Vi unbelievers!

I get the impression that Eclipse has been surpassed in ease of use and
stability by other IDEs, but I've been using it for a decade now, and
I'm not excited about climbing the learning curve on a different package.

--
Dirk Bergstrom
[hidden email]
http://otisbean.com/
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Dirk Bergstrom-4
In reply to this post by Shannon -jj Behrens
On 03/06/2012 10:39 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>   * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is
> the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.  They're
> all from the same company.

Does JetBrains have some uber-IDE that combines all three?  One of the
reasons I've stuck with Eclipse is that I have projects in multiple
languages (I once built an app with significant amounts of Java, Python
and Javascript, plus some Perl and shell).  At work I maintain one app
that's 60/40 JavaScript/Python and another that's 90/10 Ruby/Javascript.
  Eclipse handles transitions between languages seamlessly.  I'd hate to
have to keep multiple IDEs open...

--
Dirk Bergstrom
[hidden email]
http://otisbean.com/
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Shannon -jj Behrens
In reply to this post by jim stockford
I liked it when everyone showed off their favorite features of their editors :)

-jj

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, jim <[hidden email]> wrote:


   It's been a couple of years at least since we've
had a talk on development tools. Wanna summarize with
Q&A at a BayPIGgies meeting?



On Tue, 2012-03-06 at 10:39 -0800, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Paul Hoffman <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>         Hi again. I use BBEdit on the Mac and love it for editing all
>         sorts of
>         text files. It does a very nice job with Python programs: it
>         handles
>         indentation well; it shows me balanced opens when typing
>         closing ), ],
>         and }; it has a drop-down for all the subroutine names, and a
>         few
>         other things.
>
>         However, I haven't used any of the free/paid Python IDEs, and
>         I
>         realized that I might be missing some Really Cool Features
>         that would
>         cause me to use an IDE for my Python work and my text editor
>         for the
>         rest of the text work (like the HTML files documenting the
>         Python...).
>         What useful features am I missing?
>
>         Yes, this could cause a "my IDE is best" war, but I think some
>         of us
>         on the sidelines would benefit. :-)
>
>
> The exact same conversation just happened on the SF Ruby Meetup
> mailing list.  Here's a link
> (http://www.sfruby.info/messages/30916602/).  Unfortunately, Meetup
> doesn't have a threaded view of the mailing list.
>
>
> Here's a summary of my opinion on the subject:
>
>
>  * Lots of people still like Vim.
>
>
>  * Lots of people are using the new Janus set of plugins for Vim.  I
> tried it, and it didn't bring me joy at all.
>
>
>  * Emacs seems to be more popular for Python than for Ruby.
>
>
>  * Sublime Text 2 is an up-and-coming popular contender in the text
> editor wars among Ruby users.  I'm a Vim diehard, but I've been using
> Sublime Text 2 for a few weeks now. Beware, it's commercial.
>
>
>  * TextMate has traditionally been the editor of choice for Rails
> developers.
>
>
>  * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is
> the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.
>  They're all from the same company.  They all cost money.
>
>
>  * There are lots of things that a good IDE can do that a text editor
> can't.
>
>
>  * Generally, an IDE speeds up my development workflow in many ways,
> but using Vim's keybindings speeds up my text editing.
>
>
>  * PyCharm's Vim keybindings are okay, but not fantastic.  PyCharm's
> editor isn't very sophisticated.
>
>
>  * There are lots of ways in which Python and Ruby reduce the
> effectiveness of a good IDE.  I.e. it's less useful for Python and
> Ruby programmers than it is for Java programmers.
>
>
>  * PyCharm and RubyMine really are amazing.  I encourage you to watch
> the videos on the website to get a feel for what they can do.
>
>
>  * PyCharm and RubyMine aren't without flaws.  They are big software.
>  Sometimes they don't work as promised.  Sometimes they hang.
>  Sometimes they crash.  They almost always eat lots of memory,
> although that's less relevant these days since I have so much memory.
>
>
>  * In my own experience, PyCharm and RubyMine can help you write
> software quicker and more correctly, and they can also help you
> refactor software quicker and more correctly.  However, when it comes
> down to moving and tweaking text, you can't beat Vim.
>
>
>  * There was a great IDE panel at last year's PyCon.  PyCharm came out
> on top.  Most Python programmers don't care.
>
>
>  * Sublime Text 2 is easier to use, easier to learn, and has more
> *built in* power than Vim and Emacs.  Sure, Emacs lets you do anything
> with Emacs Lisp.  Sublime Text 2 lets you do "anything" with Python
> and/or the external programming language of your choice.  It is
> compatible with TextMate bundles.  It has many tricks that other
> editors fundamentally lack (such as multiple cursors, a 10,000 foot
> view of your code, and the ability to guess at what the right
> indentation settings for a random file are).
>
>
>  * NetBeans with the jVi plugin is a good compromise of IDE
> functionality with very good Vim keybindings, if that floats your
> boat.
>
>
>  * I just can't get into Eclipse no matter how hard I try.  PyCharm is
> simply better.
>
>
> Ok, I will now don a fireproof vest and hide in an undisclosed
> location.  I really do love talking about editors and IDEs.  It's too
> bad the subject always devolves into flame wars.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> -jj
>
>
> --
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies





--
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Shannon -jj Behrens
In reply to this post by Dirk Bergstrom-4
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Dirk Bergstrom <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 03/06/2012 10:39 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
 * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is
the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.  They're
all from the same company.

Does JetBrains have some uber-IDE that combines all three?  One of the reasons I've stuck with Eclipse is that I have projects in multiple languages (I once built an app with significant amounts of Java, Python and Javascript, plus some Perl and shell).  At work I maintain one app that's 60/40 JavaScript/Python and another that's 90/10 Ruby/Javascript.  Eclipse handles transitions between languages seamlessly.  I'd hate to have to keep multiple IDEs open...

PyCharm and RubyMine each work with all the standard web technologies extremely well.  That's the biggest reason I don't use WingIDE--I suspect PyCharm and RubyMine do a better job with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.

There is a $500 monster called IntelliJ Ultimate that gives you everything in one IDE.  I tried it out, and although it's supposed to be a strict superset of PyCharm, it didn't work out so well for me.  For instance, it didn't recognize when a subdirectory contained a Google App Engine project.  Apparently, if you know what you're doing, you can configure it correctly.  However, sticking with PyCharm for Python and RubyMine for Ruby is simpler.  I've only had one project that combined the two, and thankfully, I don't have to work on that project any more.  I'm not the only one who's had this problem.

Dirk, if you're familiar with Eclipse, I doubt that switching to PyCharm would take you very long.  I'd be surprised if it took you more than a few hours to start seeing some productivity improvements.

As for Vi keybindings for Eclipse, I've heard there is a commercial project that adds them.  The Vim keybindings for IntelliJ are okay, but not spectacular.

Happy Hacking!
-jj

--
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Nathan Pease
no one's mentioned Komodo. I rely on it for remote debugging. (of course I'm in the realm of IDE features rather than text editor features but the conversation has swung that way somewhat). Other folks in the office use Eclipse for remote debugging too but I've never bothered to get familiar with it.
I wouldn't be able to work without at least a local debugger (or at least I wouldn't like it). And we embed python interpreters in apps we develop (I <3 SWIG) so the ability to remote debug is pretty crucial too.

nate



On Mar 6, 2012, at 2:15 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Dirk Bergstrom <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 03/06/2012 10:39 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
 * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is
the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.  They're
all from the same company.

Does JetBrains have some uber-IDE that combines all three?  One of the reasons I've stuck with Eclipse is that I have projects in multiple languages (I once built an app with significant amounts of Java, Python and Javascript, plus some Perl and shell).  At work I maintain one app that's 60/40 JavaScript/Python and another that's 90/10 Ruby/Javascript.  Eclipse handles transitions between languages seamlessly.  I'd hate to have to keep multiple IDEs open...

PyCharm and RubyMine each work with all the standard web technologies extremely well.  That's the biggest reason I don't use WingIDE--I suspect PyCharm and RubyMine do a better job with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.

There is a $500 monster called IntelliJ Ultimate that gives you everything in one IDE.  I tried it out, and although it's supposed to be a strict superset of PyCharm, it didn't work out so well for me.  For instance, it didn't recognize when a subdirectory contained a Google App Engine project.  Apparently, if you know what you're doing, you can configure it correctly.  However, sticking with PyCharm for Python and RubyMine for Ruby is simpler.  I've only had one project that combined the two, and thankfully, I don't have to work on that project any more.  I'm not the only one who's had this problem.

Dirk, if you're familiar with Eclipse, I doubt that switching to PyCharm would take you very long.  I'd be surprised if it took you more than a few hours to start seeing some productivity improvements.

As for Vi keybindings for Eclipse, I've heard there is a commercial project that adds them.  The Vim keybindings for IntelliJ are okay, but not spectacular.

Happy Hacking!
-jj

--
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

Shannon -jj Behrens
I've written a fair amount on Komodo:


-jj

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Nathan Pease <[hidden email]> wrote:
no one's mentioned Komodo. I rely on it for remote debugging. (of course I'm in the realm of IDE features rather than text editor features but the conversation has swung that way somewhat). Other folks in the office use Eclipse for remote debugging too but I've never bothered to get familiar with it.
I wouldn't be able to work without at least a local debugger (or at least I wouldn't like it). And we embed python interpreters in apps we develop (I <3 SWIG) so the ability to remote debug is pretty crucial too.

nate



On Mar 6, 2012, at 2:15 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Dirk Bergstrom <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 03/06/2012 10:39 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
 * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is
the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.  They're
all from the same company.

Does JetBrains have some uber-IDE that combines all three?  One of the reasons I've stuck with Eclipse is that I have projects in multiple languages (I once built an app with significant amounts of Java, Python and Javascript, plus some Perl and shell).  At work I maintain one app that's 60/40 JavaScript/Python and another that's 90/10 Ruby/Javascript.  Eclipse handles transitions between languages seamlessly.  I'd hate to have to keep multiple IDEs open...

PyCharm and RubyMine each work with all the standard web technologies extremely well.  That's the biggest reason I don't use WingIDE--I suspect PyCharm and RubyMine do a better job with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.

There is a $500 monster called IntelliJ Ultimate that gives you everything in one IDE.  I tried it out, and although it's supposed to be a strict superset of PyCharm, it didn't work out so well for me.  For instance, it didn't recognize when a subdirectory contained a Google App Engine project.  Apparently, if you know what you're doing, you can configure it correctly.  However, sticking with PyCharm for Python and RubyMine for Ruby is simpler.  I've only had one project that combined the two, and thankfully, I don't have to work on that project any more.  I'm not the only one who's had this problem.

Dirk, if you're familiar with Eclipse, I doubt that switching to PyCharm would take you very long.  I'd be surprised if it took you more than a few hours to start seeing some productivity improvements.

As for Vi keybindings for Eclipse, I've heard there is a commercial project that adds them.  The Vim keybindings for IntelliJ are okay, but not spectacular.

Happy Hacking!
-jj

--
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



--
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Loading...