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highlight-indentation

Andreas Röhler-2
Hi Barry,

just seeing highlight-indentation by Anton Johansson - thanks a lot to
him BTW -

which I suggest to include into next release.

It delivers graphical bars indicating the indent-level, makes em more
impressive. Might be useful in certain circumstances.


Source:

https://github.com/antonj/Highlight-Indentation-for-Emacs/blob/master/highlight-indentation.el


Andreas

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Re: highlight-indentation

Barry Warsaw
On Mar 09, 2011, at 10:24 PM, Andreas Röhler wrote:

>just seeing highlight-indentation by Anton Johansson - thanks a lot to him
>BTW - which I suggest to include into next release.
>
>It delivers graphical bars indicating the indent-level, makes em more
>impressive. Might be useful in certain circumstances.

Hi Andreas, Anton,

Indeed, I agree that this could be very useful in some situations.  It can be
a little distracting, so it probably should not be turned on by default, but
for those cases where the indentation is really hard to follow, I think this
could be a very nice addition.

Is this file going to be added to Emacs?  It seems more general than just for
Python (e.g. turn it on in python-mode.el).

One minor nit: I wonder if it makes sense to highlight columns that are not in
the leading whitespace.  For example, turn it on and look at the define-key
lines starting at about line 845 in python-mode.el.  There are some
highlighted indentation extents after the "\C-c:" string.  Those don't seem
useful.

Thanks for pointing it out, and thanks to Anton for writing it.

Cheers,
-Barry

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Re: highlight-indentation

Andreas Röhler-2
Am 11.03.2011 13:47, schrieb Barry Warsaw:

> On Mar 09, 2011, at 10:24 PM, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>
>> just seeing highlight-indentation by Anton Johansson - thanks a lot to him
>> BTW - which I suggest to include into next release.
>>
>> It delivers graphical bars indicating the indent-level, makes em more
>> impressive. Might be useful in certain circumstances.
>
> Hi Andreas, Anton,
>

Hi Barry,

> Indeed, I agree that this could be very useful in some situations.

good news :-)

  It can be
> a little distracting, so it probably should not be turned on by default,


as it's just a function, user may call them or not. It doesn't interfere.

BTW exists still another nice tool of the same author at:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1587972/how-to-display-indentation-guides-in-emacs


(defun aj-toggle-fold ()
   "Toggle fold all lines larger than indentation on current line"
   (interactive)
   (let ((col 1))
     (save-excursion
       (back-to-indentation)
       (setq col (+ 1 (current-column)))
       (set-selective-display
        (if selective-display nil (or col 1))))))

(global-set-key [(M C i)] 'aj-toggle-fold)

Maybe have look.


  but

> for those cases where the indentation is really hard to follow, I think this
> could be a very nice addition.
>
> Is this file going to be added to Emacs?  It seems more general than just for
> Python (e.g. turn it on in python-mode.el).
>
> One minor nit: I wonder if it makes sense to highlight columns that are not in
> the leading whitespace.  For example, turn it on and look at the define-key
> lines starting at about line 845 in python-mode.el.  There are some
> highlighted indentation extents after the "\C-c:" string.  Those don't seem
> useful.

Yes, seeing that too.

AFAIU it will be hard to cure, as the function sets consecutive
whitespaces as keywords. Trailing whitespaces are marked that way too.

Also it only occurs if large whitespaces are somewhere between.

For the purpose of quickly indicating multiple indents it's fine.
So don't see a need to ask for a change at this state.


Andreas




>
> Thanks for pointing it out, and thanks to Anton for writing it.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry

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Re: highlight-indentation

Barry Warsaw
Hi Andreas,

I noticed that you committed this file to our bzr tree.  I'm concerned about
doing this without Anton's approval (and maybe even with it).  Anton probably
has his own source code repository, so at the very least it would be more
effort for us to keep our copy up-to-date with his.  python-mode.el doesn't
depend on his code, so it's really not necessary for us to have a copy in our
tree.

As cool as Anton's module is, and it definitely could help Python programmers,
it's probably a better idea to add a reference to his work (and his download
site or source repository) in our README file or in the comments at the top of
python-mode.el.

If Anton really wants us to keep the canonical version of his mode in our bzr
tree, we could discuss that.  Anton, what do you think?

Cheers,
-Barry

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Re: highlight-indentation

anton-60
Hello,

I'm absolutely cool with you guys using the code in any way you find
suitable, nice to see some people finding it useful!

Like you have discussed before, there are some issues with
highlight-indentation.el that could be handled better, for example
highlighting spaces that are not in the leading whitespace. If you can
find a good way to link to my repo so that people can submit possible
fixes that would be good since the code is also usable in other modes.

Cheers
-Anton

On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:28 AM, Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Andreas,
>
> I noticed that you committed this file to our bzr tree.  I'm concerned about
> doing this without Anton's approval (and maybe even with it).  Anton probably
> has his own source code repository, so at the very least it would be more
> effort for us to keep our copy up-to-date with his.  python-mode.el doesn't
> depend on his code, so it's really not necessary for us to have a copy in our
> tree.
>
> As cool as Anton's module is, and it definitely could help Python programmers,
> it's probably a better idea to add a reference to his work (and his download
> site or source repository) in our README file or in the comments at the top of
> python-mode.el.
>
> If Anton really wants us to keep the canonical version of his mode in our bzr
> tree, we could discuss that.  Anton, what do you think?
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
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Re: highlight-indentation

Andreas Röhler-2
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw
Am 12.03.2011 04:28, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> Hi Andreas,
>
> I noticed that you committed this file to our bzr tree.


Hi Barry,

took preceding exchange for an approval. Will be more carful next time.


  I'm concerned about

> doing this without Anton's approval (and maybe even with it).  Anton probably
> has his own source code repository, so at the very least it would be more
> effort for us to keep our copy up-to-date with his.  python-mode.el doesn't
> depend on his code, so it's really not necessary for us to have a copy in our
> tree.
>
> As cool as Anton's module is, and it definitely could help Python programmers,
> it's probably a better idea to add a reference to his work (and his download
> site or source repository) in our README file or in the comments at the top of
> python-mode.el.
>
> If Anton really wants us to keep the canonical version of his mode in our bzr
> tree, we could discuss that.  Anton, what do you think?
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry


As for the approval: thought that's precisely what the
GPL is for.

So if an author publishs it's code under GPL, that's for
the very reason others may take it, isn't it?

Beside I gave credits with commit message, inside the
header and also dropped a notice to the author.

Which doesn't mean your concerns are invalid, posed
them for me also and answered them as given
above.

Likewise as for the technical aspects of repository:

Having useful Emacs code all around the net, it's just
the situation we are in. It's not all bad with that,
makes some pleasure to look around, trying this and
that.

As for my concern here I'm heading for an IDE, where
people open Emacs and find ererything ready for Python
edits as far as the state of art delivers it.

That means the question you raised concerning
whitespaces for examples must be discussed before and
at place. You can't know what our creative folks will
be have in mind next, if it will be suitable, more or
less, buggy more or less and so on. It's not done with
links delivered.

If we will provide an Python-IDE we must be able to
tell:

here is it's specification, it will work for these
conditions, makings that requirements.

Therefor we must collect the code for the specified
purpose, IMHO :-)

Cheers


Andreas

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Re: highlight-indentation

Andreas Röhler-2
In reply to this post by anton-60
Hi Anton,

thanks a lot BTW.

Added a link onto your repo into the header.

In order to get a wider audience with resp. to other modes an entry
at

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en

might be useful.


As for bug-tracking think we should forward any report to you, if it
concerns your file(s). OTOH would not charge the users which such
specific requests.

Agreed?

Thanks again.


Andreas

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Am 12.03.2011 11:38, schrieb Anton Johansson:

> Hello,
>
> I'm absolutely cool with you guys using the code in any way you find
> suitable, nice to see some people finding it useful!
>
> Like you have discussed before, there are some issues with
> highlight-indentation.el that could be handled better, for example
> highlighting spaces that are not in the leading whitespace. If you can
> find a good way to link to my repo so that people can submit possible
> fixes that would be good since the code is also usable in other modes.
>
> Cheers
> -Anton
>
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:28 AM, Barry Warsaw<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Hi Andreas,
>>
>> I noticed that you committed this file to our bzr tree.  I'm concerned about
>> doing this without Anton's approval (and maybe even with it).  Anton probably
>> has his own source code repository, so at the very least it would be more
>> effort for us to keep our copy up-to-date with his.  python-mode.el doesn't
>> depend on his code, so it's really not necessary for us to have a copy in our
>> tree.
>>
>> As cool as Anton's module is, and it definitely could help Python programmers,
>> it's probably a better idea to add a reference to his work (and his download
>> site or source repository) in our README file or in the comments at the top of
>> python-mode.el.
>>
>> If Anton really wants us to keep the canonical version of his mode in our bzr
>> tree, we could discuss that.  Anton, what do you think?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Barry
>>
>

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Re: highlight-indentation

anton-60
Hi, if you can forward bug tracking automatically, please do, otherwise it's ok don't overwork it :) Also the full functionality of highlight-indentation is basically:

(setq highlight-indent-offset 4) ;; Spaces indent level
(font-lock-add-keywords nil `((,(format "\\( \\) \\{%s\\}" (- highlight-indent-offset 1)) (1 'highlight-indent-face))))

so if you find a better place to extract that to syntax highlighting code it might be better...

Cheers
-- Anton

On Mar 13, 2011, at 09:15 , Andreas Röhler wrote:

> Hi Anton,
>
> thanks a lot BTW.
>
> Added a link onto your repo into the header.
>
> In order to get a wider audience with resp. to other modes an entry
> at
>
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en
>
> might be useful.
>
>
> As for bug-tracking think we should forward any report to you, if it concerns your file(s). OTOH would not charge the users which such specific requests.
>
> Agreed?
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
> Andreas
>
> --
> https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode/python-mode-components
> https://code.launchpad.net/s-x-emacs-werkstatt/
>
>
>
>
> Am 12.03.2011 11:38, schrieb Anton Johansson:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm absolutely cool with you guys using the code in any way you find
>> suitable, nice to see some people finding it useful!
>>
>> Like you have discussed before, there are some issues with
>> highlight-indentation.el that could be handled better, for example
>> highlighting spaces that are not in the leading whitespace. If you can
>> find a good way to link to my repo so that people can submit possible
>> fixes that would be good since the code is also usable in other modes.
>>
>> Cheers
>> -Anton
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:28 AM, Barry Warsaw<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Hi Andreas,
>>>
>>> I noticed that you committed this file to our bzr tree.  I'm concerned about
>>> doing this without Anton's approval (and maybe even with it).  Anton probably
>>> has his own source code repository, so at the very least it would be more
>>> effort for us to keep our copy up-to-date with his.  python-mode.el doesn't
>>> depend on his code, so it's really not necessary for us to have a copy in our
>>> tree.
>>>
>>> As cool as Anton's module is, and it definitely could help Python programmers,
>>> it's probably a better idea to add a reference to his work (and his download
>>> site or source repository) in our README file or in the comments at the top of
>>> python-mode.el.
>>>
>>> If Anton really wants us to keep the canonical version of his mode in our bzr
>>> tree, we could discuss that.  Anton, what do you think?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Barry
>>>
>>
>

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Re: highlight-indentation

Barry Warsaw
In reply to this post by Andreas Röhler-2
@pycon so just a quick reply...

On Mar 12, 2011, at 01:44 PM, Andreas Röhler wrote:

>As for the approval: thought that's precisely what the
>GPL is for.

Well, the GPL makes it *legal*, but approval keeps us nice. :)

-B

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Re: highlight-indentation

Andreas Röhler-2
In reply to this post by anton-60
Am 14.03.2011 10:04, schrieb Anton Johansson:
> Hi, if you can forward bug tracking automatically, please do,


Hi,

launchpad sends notifications once a bug is tracked there. Must be
registered, which goes smoothly, no special requirings.

With an lp account I may subscribe to related bugs. Also you may
subscribe yourself to what matter whatever and do some other funny things.

Beside bug-tracking feature-request may be tracked. Blue-prints are for
that AFAIU.

Than it has Milestones where ToDo's might be listed and Releases prepared.

highlight-indentation integration could be part of a milestone for example.

So far

best regards,

Andreas


otherwise it's ok don't overwork it :) Also the full functionality of
highlight-indentation is basically:

>
> (setq highlight-indent-offset 4) ;; Spaces indent level
> (font-lock-add-keywords nil `((,(format "\\( \\) \\{%s\\}" (- highlight-indent-offset 1)) (1 'highlight-indent-face))))
>
> so if you find a better place to extract that to syntax highlighting code it might be better...
>
> Cheers
> -- Anton
>
> On Mar 13, 2011, at 09:15 , Andreas Röhler wrote:
>
>> Hi Anton,
>>
>> thanks a lot BTW.
>>
>> Added a link onto your repo into the header.
>>
>> In order to get a wider audience with resp. to other modes an entry
>> at
>>
>> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en
>>
>> might be useful.
>>
>>
>> As for bug-tracking think we should forward any report to you, if it concerns your file(s). OTOH would not charge the users which such specific requests.
>>
>> Agreed?
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> --
>> https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode/python-mode-components
>> https://code.launchpad.net/s-x-emacs-werkstatt/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 12.03.2011 11:38, schrieb Anton Johansson:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm absolutely cool with you guys using the code in any way you find
>>> suitable, nice to see some people finding it useful!
>>>
>>> Like you have discussed before, there are some issues with
>>> highlight-indentation.el that could be handled better, for example
>>> highlighting spaces that are not in the leading whitespace. If you can
>>> find a good way to link to my repo so that people can submit possible
>>> fixes that would be good since the code is also usable in other modes.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> -Anton
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:28 AM, Barry Warsaw<[hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>> Hi Andreas,
>>>>
>>>> I noticed that you committed this file to our bzr tree.  I'm concerned about
>>>> doing this without Anton's approval (and maybe even with it).  Anton probably
>>>> has his own source code repository, so at the very least it would be more
>>>> effort for us to keep our copy up-to-date with his.  python-mode.el doesn't
>>>> depend on his code, so it's really not necessary for us to have a copy in our
>>>> tree.
>>>>
>>>> As cool as Anton's module is, and it definitely could help Python programmers,
>>>> it's probably a better idea to add a reference to his work (and his download
>>>> site or source repository) in our README file or in the comments at the top of
>>>> python-mode.el.
>>>>
>>>> If Anton really wants us to keep the canonical version of his mode in our bzr
>>>> tree, we could discuss that.  Anton, what do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Barry
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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Re: highlight-indentation

Andreas Röhler-2
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw
Am 14.03.2011 17:49, schrieb Barry Warsaw:

> @pycon so just a quick reply...
>
> On Mar 12, 2011, at 01:44 PM, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>
>> As for the approval: thought that's precisely what the
>> GPL is for.
>
> Well, the GPL makes it *legal*, but approval keeps us nice. :)
>
> -B

Hi Barry,

makes me some headache, will see if I'm able to explain the --in the
precise case purely abstract-- reasons:

First at the GPL:

its often blamed and disputed and has some quirks. But seen from the
world outside it provides indeed some miraculous, which you may call
freedom. BTW I'm not going to relate it to other licences providing free
software, just the phenomen Emacs and GPL at stake here.

GPL just works, it provides permissions to use, change, distribute etc.

Lets further assume any person publishing code under GPL knows what it's
doing.

If not, we should not try to fix that by extra personal permissions
handed over, but by teaching the meaning of the GPL.

OTOH if someone is going to state obvious things, these statements
change its meaning.

Same when asking questions already answered.

The danger here is raising wrong expectations.

If you ask for a use, did you ask for a permission to change too?

What, if the author later changes it's mind?
Will you pull the code than out again?

See diskussions lately around python.el, what kind of difficulties may
arise, when confidence in GPL should not be enough.

Nonetheless always trying to be as polite as my habits permit... :-)

Cheers

Andreas

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Re: highlight-indentation

Barry Warsaw
Hi Andreas,

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, and of course we're allowed to use
anything GPL'd.  I don't think even politeness mandates pre-approval in order
to *use* GPL code.

The "let's be nice" comment wasn't directed at you personally, or really
anybody here - I think we're all being nice, helpful, and polite, which to me
is one of the most important principles of FLOSS. :)

It also wasn't a comment on our use of GPL code.  It was related to our
bringing in a copy of someone else's file, which is already under their own
VCS, into our VCS.  Doing so could give the impression that we're the
authoritative copy of the file.  I wouldn't want to usurp someone else's
authority on that without their approval.

I hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
-Barry

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Re: highlight-indentation

Skip Montanaro-3
In reply to this post by Andreas Röhler-2

I agree wholeheartedly with Barry's previous message on the indentation
topic.  Let me provide you with an analogy from a totally different realm.

If I take the dog out in the evening for a bathroom walk, I doubt that I
really need to tell my wife.  After all, it's part of my nightly routine to
walk Lily before coming up to bed.  There is no signed contract which
dictates that I tell her I'm walking the dog.  If Ellen happens to come
downstairs she will notice the absence of me, the dog and the leash, and not
jump to the conclusion that a neighbor has snuck in to walk the dog while
I've flown off to the Caribbean with some floozy (or gone "hiking in the
Appalachians" as a certain former politician from South Carolina did).
Still, as I head out the door, I let her know that Lily and I will be back
in a few minutes.  It's just the nice thing to do.

Skip

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Re: highlight-indentation

Andreas Röhler-2
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw
Am 25.03.2011 16:08, schrieb Barry Warsaw:

> Hi Andreas,
>
> I don't disagree with anything you wrote, and of course we're allowed to use
> anything GPL'd.  I don't think even politeness mandates pre-approval in order
> to *use* GPL code.
>
> The "let's be nice" comment wasn't directed at you personally, or really
> anybody here - I think we're all being nice, helpful, and polite, which to me
> is one of the most important principles of FLOSS. :)
>
> It also wasn't a comment on our use of GPL code.  It was related to our
> bringing in a copy of someone else's file, which is already under their own
> VCS, into our VCS.  Doing so could give the impression that we're the
> authoritative copy of the file.  I wouldn't want to usurp someone else's
> authority on that without their approval.
>
> I hope that makes sense.

Me too :-)

Somehow the VCS seems at stake now.
Okay, let's go on. Thanks and sorry should I have provoked too much writing.

Let's go into another turn.

Andreas



>
> Cheers,
> -Barry

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Re: highlight-indentation

François Pinard
In reply to this post by Andreas Röhler-2
Andreas Röhler <[hidden email]> writes:

> just seeing highlight-indentation by Anton Johansson [...]  It
> delivers graphical bars indicating the indent-level, makes em more
> impressive. Might be useful in certain circumstances.

I wonder if someone (not me!) could devise some overly trickery by which
the vertical bars would be thinner.  I guess (without being sure) that
it currently uses grey background for single space characters.  One
column wide is fairly thick.  A light gray background make the aspect a
bit less striking, but yet, it is still a bit thick. :-)

François
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Re: highlight-indentation

Andreas Röhler-2
Am 27.01.2012 05:34, schrieb François Pinard:

> Andreas Röhler<[hidden email]>  writes:
>
>> just seeing highlight-indentation by Anton Johansson [...]  It
>> delivers graphical bars indicating the indent-level, makes em more
>> impressive. Might be useful in certain circumstances.
>
> I wonder if someone (not me!) could devise some overly trickery by which
> the vertical bars would be thinner.  I guess (without being sure) that
> it currently uses grey background for single space characters.  One
> column wide is fairly thick.  A light gray background make the aspect a
> bit less striking, but yet, it is still a bit thick. :-)
>
> François

hmm, read your mail as pertaining to

M-x column-marker-1

etc. (?)

Andreas

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